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[Book Spoilers] EP408 Discussion


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Arya's laughter works several ways. On the one hand, she's laughing because she's finally within reach of some measure of safety and again, it gets snatched away. She's just a couple of days too late. On the other hand: her aunt just died and that really doesn't seem to phase her. And, yes, like she said, she doesn't actually know her aunt. But hey, it's still her aunt.

Not a scene to my liking.

There was some rumor that the Hound could be getting himself killed by the Knights of the Vale. In hindsight, that doesn't seem logical with Arya by his side. But then they could've just skipped the Bloody Gate alltogether. We've had enough close encounters and I don't think they're fooling anyone in to believing a Stark reunion is within the realm of possibilities.

Took it has her just laughing with the ridiculousness of her situation at this point. She has zero ties with her aunt, might as well be a stranger to her.

Also think she might of been laughing at the Hound a bit. To her it seems she just lost his paycheck since she now has (to her knowledge) no living relatives with money.

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With a few misstep here and there, this was rather interesting, and for me as Sansa fan, truly memorable episode. Long story short, Sansa and Oberyn ruled this, unfortunately in different directions.

The end was as gory as it should have been. I know some viewers don't like it, but the books leave no imagination to what has happened there, and the duel was nicely done. The Oberyn's mobility was something expected and there was a nice flow to it. Liked how he handled the spear, it was indeed nicely done. I loved the keeping "You raped her, you murdered her, you killed her children" and Pascal was absolutely phenomenal in making each of those times slightly more irritated. I am sincerely pleased at how show maintained the twist we have in books, and how our hopes were crushed in the very same cruel way it was done in the books. I assume the Unsullied rage has went over the top...

On the other hand we have "from Aurora to Maleficent" Sansa Stark. The end is there. This is all we have from Sansa in terms of book material, and I believe that we have concluded with her this year. How I feel about this is another story. This was truly from zero to hero transformation and although it felt a bit too fast, this was something that truly opens entire array of possibilities. Now, we can either conclude that Alayne Stone is the mask that never went deep in Sansa's psyche, or at least that is where the show is heading. TBH, there is a huge gap between Sansa's Alayne in TV and Sansa's Alayne in the books. This transformation was, in terms of her playing the game, phenomenal, but there is a feeling that TV Sansa is going into, if not "warrior princess" mode, than in some sort of "ice queen" which, again, can be problematic. I do find her acknowledgement of what LF wants rather interesting, and I assume that this indeed is TWOW spoilers in which Sansa realizes what LF wants from her. As for the vamp costume, we should never forget one thing - she sow it. She made that costume. She was the one who made her look that way. Not LF or anyone else. Sansa has turned herself into a player, and that can go in many directions... All and all, if we are to end her storyline this year, it is in many ways, interesting ending. Now, at least no one can argue that she is silly little girl :)

ETA: Let we not forget a bit crow-ish appeal of Sansa. Bloodraven, much?

In conclusion, interesting episode with Sansa and Oberyn taking the crown this week. Both Turner and Pascal were amazing and truly wonderful addition to the cast. I am going to miss Pascal... As I miss Oberyn :(

I agree on all I loved the turn taken with Sansa it will be very interesting come next season or even this season to see where it will turn to now. The only thing I fear is too many know she is Sansa Stark now.

I am sorry to see Oberyn go as well even if staying true within the novels it was still just as shocking and even more gruesome.

I wonder if we will see Lady Stoneheart this season as well?

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Alright I'm still in shock because of the last scene, I couldn't even watch it.... man they went all the way.

First, people need to stop complaining about Grey Worm and Missandei. They have great chemistry, they are very cute together, it makes even historical sense.... powerful, rich eunuchs have married in the past, so why not??? The two of them are replacing a lot of characters from the books, so they will have very important roles in the story after Daenerys flies away. Heck, they will probably survive all the way to Westeros and be important there.... it makes sense from the show's perspective.

As for Sansa... they rushed a little bit, but I liked a lot the trial, it was a great scene, Sophie Turner was amazing and for half the episode I liked a lot what they did with her story.... then I was shocked to find out that LF had no clue about that. What??? So, they make Sansa look great, but everything they added to her character, detracted from LF's. Do you understand how vulnerable he was in that scene with Lord Royce and the others??? LF is just too smart to be put in a situation like that.... if he didn't have a plan why did he kill Lysa??? That's disappointing... as for the last scenes.... I would bet that some unsullied will think she slept with LF, heck maybe she did in D&D's story (I really hope not)

To me, the scenese with Roose, Ramsay and Theon were perfection. They showed nothing new, but that doesn't mean they weren't great. Theon starting Reeking in front of that captain? so funny :).

When watching the episode I simply didn't understand what was the point of the roach story, after I saw the "Inside the Episode". They wanted to show that Tyrion simply doesn't understand why this is happening to him, he wants an answer that he can't get.... pretty simple stuff, a bit disappointing.

Emilia Clarke was good for a change, nothing great, but she did exactly what that banishment scene demanded from her.

What I hated was Arya's scene.... horrible. Why did they need to yell her name??? She could have had the same reaction even if the soldiers didn't know it was her. That's just stupid.... probably they did this, because they couldn't find another reason for the guards to let them pass. I bet Sandor and Arya reach the Eyrie and Sansa just left on her voyage .... Sandor dies and Arya goes to Gulltown. They created a lot of complications because they were too lazy to search for a better reasoninig.

Of course, TV-Littlefinger is not, in my opinion, as smart as book-Littlefinger. TV-LF is the guy who spilled his guts regarding his youthful traumas and lifelong motivation to his prostitutes as they were practicing. But it is a departure; the real LF would have properly prepared Sansa/Alayne to give the testimony he wanted.

Didn't book-Littlefinger tell Sansa at one time that the best liars use part of the truth to make their lies seem more real, or that their lies include some truth? If so, then TV-Sansa certainly used a good deal of truth in her testimony; her misery as a Lannister hostage, and Littlefinger's having taken her away from that.

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If the showrunners showed us the Red Wedding in that way that we all know, Why we should believe that they would not change Oberyn's death or make it worse?

For me the beatle scene was very good, it makes you think about of lot of things about the series

Thought it was an excellent scene. Showed us Tyrion's mental state with the fear of possibly facing his own death that is completely out of his own hands, and trying to find meaning behind the possibly meaningless. Like wondering if God (or the Gods) are just a kid with a magnifying glass burning aunts when he gets bored.

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Oh yeah...

I actually think Grey Worm is balls and shaftless completely. I think his staring was him going "well hell. I really like her and its kinda awesome shes paying attention to me. She gives me reason to fight that i can keep in my feels box. But im a sad panda. If she likes me back, i cant give her the Big Main Thing and thats the pits. Maybe if i fib..nah that wont work either. I dunno. I think im in love but im not sure how this feels cuz i dont have man parts and i cant give her everything she needs or wants."

Maybe Grey Worm will discover Lightbringer, and have it melted down, and forged into into a Valyrian steel strap-on. :D

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I was sad to see the Hound and Arya at the Bloody Gate. I was hoping it would be important WHERE Arya leaves him. It seemed to me like a lot of the time in this one was wasted.


Edited by Wilhite
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Thank you... Everyone are speaking about Black Swan and Maleficent, but in universe this was Bloodraven to the core...

:thumbsup: Im a little on the fence about the costume change to be honest (outside the hair. That needed to happen), but i think its more raven imagery than Disney Villain. /shrug Like the Raven, some people might get the wrong idea about Sansa's Alayne persona. But in truth, its just misunderstanding and smoke and mirrors. Lies and Arbor Gold. Shes Sansa Stark, the girl who lost her wolf and home. But this time, shes not in a cage, shes sitting on a perch. Watching. Its beautiful and i love it! I ROOT FOR IT.

Ha! I just laughed out loud on that one! That's what I'm going to imagine every time Royce is brought up in the books!

Hue! Yeeesss.

One detail I really liked was Roose showing no affection at all to Ramsay after his son kneeled and pledged himself to him. Very Roose.

Roose needs a shave. Im pretty cool with that too. Roose is all "lel yeah ok. Just dont fuck it up."

Maybe Grey Worm will discover Lightbringer, and have it melted down, and forged into into a Valyrian steel strap-on. :D

pahahahahah. Ahh...

*Frowns*

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If the showrunners showed us the Red Wedding in that way that we all know, Why we should believe that they would not change Oberyn's death or make it worse?

For me the beatle scene was very good, it makes you think about of lot of things about the series

Yes exactly. Tyrion spells out why ASOIAF is so compelling. The horror of insatiable sociopaths running amok.

Also provided a nice recap of the entire episode: Wildlings slaughtering people in Mole's town, Ramsay needlessly flaying and killing every Ironborn, Littlefinger being Littlefinger.

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The lord said Lysa Arryn died two days ago, and then I broke out laughing. What I didn't expect was Arya doing the same. Loved it!



Worried about the new Sansa, especially her costume, more like a dominatrix. I really really don't want her sleeping with Baelish.


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Sansa states that Lysa did what her father commanded her and then she says as many of us have. What does that imply? Poor Ned never commanded her to do anything. Did anyone catch that line. Did she say that for effect?


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I wonder if Littlefinger was singing in his head, " I've got chills, they're multiplying, and I'm losing control. Cause the power you're supplying... It's electrifying!"

No, just the reprise of "Look at me, I'm Sansa D...." That was PRECISELY what was going through my mind when I saw her all in black.

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