Arya in TWOW Arya is in BIG trouble... (Mercy chapter spoilers)

[Gerg Sknab]

some might cal it deductive reasoning, but to each his own.

....chuckle....

[manishramesh]

She did have instructions. She had to kill one of Swyft's guardsmen. It should appear as if the guard had raped and murdered Mercy, then got rid of the corpse and fled.

One of the guards happened to be Raff, that's all.

OTOH, Arya shows a bias to mixing pleasure and business. THIS is what FM don't like.

Its quite possible that there was no target at all. it is likely that she was with the mummers troop to learn their craft, as it is part of the training to be a FM.

And even if she had a target at all and she had assumed the identity of Mercy to kill that target. why would she assume that identity again even after her job was done?

[finger]

Its quite possible that there was no target at all. it is likely that she was with the mummers troop to learn their craft, as it is part of the training to be a FM.

And even if she had a target at all and she had assumed the identity of Mercy to kill that target. why would she assume that identity again even after her job was done?

Above all, there was a goal, namely ruinning Swyft's mission.

I'd say her instructions included the target (a guardsman) and some details (the bloody thing.)

Remember how the chapter starts: that day Mercy was to be raped and murdered.

Arya's mistake was due to get personaly involved in the killing. In a strictly professional job she would have helped the guard downstairs and tried to throw him to the channel while still alive.

But no, she had to mock him a bit. She could have spared the thin long blade and avenging Lenny (spelling?), but she decided to make it personal. Btw, she's growing sadistic.

On other thoughts, Arya is mannaging the murder technicalities. This killing involved the setting of a crime scene, and the victim had to cooperate. It's her most difficult kill so far.

[JungWheats]

She was only supposed to get murdered in the play; she was playing a character based on Sansa, right?

[finger]

Much so. Sansa wasn't murdered.

[GERM]

In the Mercy chapter, Mercy kills Raff the sweetling. I highly doubt Mercy was suposed to give the gift to Raff because Faceless Men do not give the gift to people they know.

When Arya killed Dareon, the kindly man blinded her. This was part of her training and punishment. She redeemed herself in the eyes of the kindly man and he has even been allowed to visit theur secret face collection.

Now she has messed things up again. She killed Raff out of vengeance. I see Arya's days with the faceless men ending.

She is going to be in big trouble because the first time she could claim she didn't know any better but now..

Im scared for her. I doubt the Faceless men will let her walk away with knowledge about how they change their appearance and she has messed up too many times....

Anyone else have the same thought?

I always felt she was rewarded for taking that life, not punished.

[Noemia]

I always felt she was rewarded for taking that life, not punished.

:agree: They probably will move forward with her training again. I doubt that they would punish her.

She might get send with the Black Pearl, to learn to be a courtesan, since the FM already offered her that chance:

"Would you sooner be a courtesan, and have songs sung of your beauty? Speak the word, and we will send you to the Black Pearl or the Daughter of the Dusk. You will sleep on rose petals and wear silken skirts that rustle when you walk, and great lords will beggar themselves for your maiden’s blood" A Dance with Dragons, Chapter 45, The Blind Girl (Arya I).

[Whitering]

How would the faceless men know that she knew him from before?

Well, the KoM did listen to her nightly prayer. If they are half as observant as we think, then he will not forget that Raff was on that list.

[jeyneofthed'Ubervilles]

She was only supposed to get murdered in the play; she was playing a character based on Sansa, right?

Shae.

[jeyneofthed'Ubervilles]

The Kindly Man levels with Arya:

It's like this kiddo, The Faceless Men are a really expensive assassination service. We get all the coin, and suckers like you do all the wet work.

Only he didn't explain it like that. Instead she got a song and a dance about suffering and slavery and some deity that knows who truly deserves to die. So just kill the folks we point you at and you'll always be right.

Soldiers always think they're fighting for freedom and democracy, but they're usually defending someone's profit margin.

[ejhawman]

1. Mercy's "rape and murder" was in reference to her role in the play. She would have had to do it every time that play was performed, when she takes that role.

2. She was not there to kill anyone; she was there to train in acting ("mummery"). This is essentially what the FM are, actors. It will help Arya properly frame her activities and lifestyle.

3. Her killing of Raff must be noticed, and it must get back to the Kindly Man and Waif. They will be angry, in their own soft ways. They will say she has demonstrated she cannot take the discipline of their Order. If Arya is smart, she will assume this and not bother returning to the temple; she will know she has to go on the run, and her next chapter should see her taking up with merchants heading for Pentos, where her story continues...

[The Tall Man]

I don’t think that Arya is in trouble.

Her development goes like this. She becomes Cat of the Canals, then the Blind Girl, she is then given the face of an Little Ugly Girl and kills a man. This is how Arya is initiated and becomes a priest, as she is allowed into the lower level of the House of Black and White.
Her first apprenticeship is with Izembaro. Her apprenticeship is not how to use mummer tricks, because she already knows, from experience as Cat and the Blind Girl.
I think her apprenticeship with Izembaro is to learn how to get actor’s in the play to follow the script.

“You’ll need to carry me.”

See? thought Mercy. You know your line, and so do I. – TWOW, Mercy

I don’t think the FM placed Mercy there to kill Raff. When Mercy sees him, she thinks the gods have given her a gift, because Arya prayed for his death and made a sacrifice to become a FM herself.
This could be interpreted differently,
When Mercy sees raff, she thinks that the gods have given her a gift, however the FM gives the gift, they don’t think they receive it.

When I read the mercy chapter, I didn’t think that Arya showed any signs of hatred to Raff, eg when he forced his tongue into her mouth. Or any feelings when he died, no judgement or justification.

I think that the Faceless Men are the instruments of the God of Many Faces, and do what they think will please their God.
The first faceless man decided that the god of many faces would be pleased if he granted a slaves wish to kill a master, with the payment being his service to the FM.

And it seemed to our first brother that this sacrifice would be pleasing to Him of Many Faces – ADWD, The Blind Girl

Arya of House Stark made this sacrifice, and Raff was someone she prayed would die. However the first FM gave the gift to the master, not the second FM. I think the reason for this was because the slave may not have been able to kill the master, and if he was able to, he would not have done it without prejudice.

When Arya first meets the Kindly Old man, he says no one has ever tried to eat his worm, hungry but not for food. Signifying that Arya is unique, it is also mentioned that FM are rarely children, or female.
There is some foreshadowing in what he tells her when the first meet.

“You lie,” he said. ”All men lie when they are scared, some tell many lies, some but a few. Some have only one great lie they tell so often that they almost come to believe it . . . though some small part of them will always know that it is still a lie, and that will show upon their faces. Tell me their names”

She chewed her lip. “The names don’t matter” – AFFC, Arya II

People are taking it too literally when they think Arya needs to become no one.

When the 11 priest’s meet and the plagued face man ask who she is, they do the usual “I’m no one” followed by “liar”.
Then Arya is told the price she must pay to become an FM, and learns how to control her face with a convincing lie. The FM know that she didn’t just stop being Arya and become no one.
The one great lie, is that she is no one, and she almost believes it.

“She almost bit her lip again, but this time she caught herself and stopped. My face is a dark pool, hiding everything, showing nothing. She thought of the names she had worn: Arry, Weasel, Squab, Cat of the Canals. She thought of that stupid girl from Winterfell called Arya Horseface. Names did not matter. ”I can pay the price. Give me a face.” – ADWD, The Ugly little Girl.

All Arya had to do was stop biting her lip, because Arya of House Stark did this.

I don’t think she had hoodwinked the Kindly Old man, with this or seeing though the cat’s eyes.

There seems to be a consensus that the FM cannot kill those they know. The reason being that the sailors who took Arya to Bravos make sure she knew their names, along with the meeting between the 11 priest’s and Arya hears,

"I know this man", then from another man "I will give this man the gift, I know him not"

Some of the crew shunned her, which might suggest that they don’t think being known will protect them, or they think she can’t remember everyone’s name, or they don’t care.
When the 11 priests meet, Arya doesn’t understand most of what is said. It could be possible that the faces they are wearing know the target, and the target must not be killed by someone who is known to them.

There seems to be a choice to give the gift.

He is one of them. A stranger. No one you love, no one you hate, no one you have ever known. Will you kill him? – ADWD, The Ugly Little Girl

It is possible that FM will not give the gift if they cannot do it neutrally, this could explain what Arya hears.

She also hears 3 of the priests speaking heatedly, perhaps the wishes of Him of Many Faces is ambiguous.

FM don’t kill because of prejudice, only what they think will please Him of Many Faces. So I think this includes Arya breaking the rules, if she even broke a ‘rule’, or if these ‘rules’ even exist. Who is going to make a sacrifice for the gift to be given to Arya? I don’t think we know enough about the FM to come to a conclusion on this.

I think in the next chapter, Arya will be deaf. I think it is interesting that they 'took' her eyes and ears, but she will 'give' her legs.

“The price is you. The price is all you have and all you ever hope to have. We took your eyes and gave them back, Next we will take your ears, and you will walk in silence. You will gave us your legs and crawl. You will be no ones daughter, no ones wife, no ones mother. Your name will be a lie, and the very face you wear will not be your own.” - ADWD, The Ugly little Girl.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

I didn't read all the posts but I've seen the argument over whether or not Arya's blindness was a punishment or a reward.

No matter how many times I read it I cannot see it as a punishment.

The KM furthers her training after she kills Dareon. Being blind definitely helped her sharpen her skills which doesn't make it seem like a very good punishment if it is one. Also, I would think if the KM was trying to punish her but was going to allow her to stay in the HoB&W that he would at least tell her what he is punishing her for or say something like "Hey if you do that again you are out"

Yes he acts disappointed but that's because her killing Dareon is proof that she hasn'rt become noone. She is still holding on to Arya.

As far as killing Raff she is most likely wearing a different face so I don't think there is any reason to believe anyone present could say it was Arya. If anyone suspects Mercy (which I highly doubt) there will be no more Mercy by the time they realize he is dead. Which brings me to another point: If Arya is not on a mission for the B&W why leave? No one is going to know she killed him if she cleans up the blood. As a matter of fact I think she would have killed him elsewhere if she wasn't operating under orders just because she knew she needed to stay & complete her real mission or training.

Maybe she wasn't operating under orders but I still don't think she will get into trouble as I don't think she got in trouble for Dareon. Jaqen obviously isn't concerned with getting into trouble over who he is killing. I don't think the rules are as clear cut as some people think. There is no way they told Jaqen: You can only kill who we tell you to unless someone saves your life along with 2 others. Then you can kill 3 people she names. Until she manipulates you & you have to help her escape.

There cannot be some blanket covering for every situation & the rules cannot be that the FM can only kill who they are ordered to kill or leave/be seriously punished. Other wise Jaqen would already be out.

Maybe the rules are different for those in training. We don't know when Mercy takes place. Maybe Arya has completed her training & has more freedom. Maybe her mission was specifically just to kill a guard & she got lucky finding Raff.

At any rate I think the whole chapters point was to show that Arya is getting better at being someone else/noone but is still Arya.

[Amris]

I didn't read all the posts

[snip]

At any rate I think the whole chapters point was to show that Arya is getting better at being someone else/noone but is still Arya.

There is one sentence in the chapter that may well be its main point - or at least a major one:

'This would make trouble for the Sealord and the envoy with the chicken on his chest, she did not doubt.'

We may see more of the Sealord and the Iron Bank.

[Hippocras]

There is one sentence in the chapter that may well be its main point - or at least a major one:

'This would make trouble for the Sealord and the envoy with the chicken on his chest, she did not doubt.'

We may see more of the Sealord and the Iron Bank.

I certainly hope we do see more of them.

As for the trouble, there was trouble anyway between the current occupants of the Iron Throne and the Bank. The play itself seemed like deliberate provocation of the Westerosi envoy. One more provocation will raise the temperature, but the conflict was there anyway.

[jeyneofthed'Ubervilles]

I certainly hope we do see more of them.

As for the trouble, there was trouble anyway between the current occupants of the Iron Throne and the Bank. The play itself seemed like deliberate provocation of the Westerosi envoy. One more provocation will raise the temperature, but the conflict was there anyway.

The play was about what an evil murderer Tyrion was. If anything they're pandering to Lord Chicken.

I'm sure they'll tell Harys to go piss up a pipe, unless they're dull enough to finance both sides of a war. A 50% default rate is too high for any business. So they'll invite him to bugger off, but in the nicest possible way.

Killing the guard of a royal envoy is still bad form. The perception that your port is unsafe for trade is bad for business.

[The Tall Man]

I'm sure they'll tell Harys to go piss up a pipe, unless they're dull enough to finance both sides of a war. A 50% default rate is too high for any business. So they'll invite him to bugger off, but in the nicest possible way.

Banks finance both sides of wars IRL. 50% default rate, but a 100% chance to have the winner in their debt.

I recall an allegory for banks that I like, A river has a current that leads to the sea. Either side of this current (currency) is a bank.

[jeyneofthed'Ubervilles]

Banks finance both sides of wars IRL. 50% default rate, but a 100% chance to have the winner in their debt.

I recall an allegory for banks that I like, A river has a current that leads to the sea. Either side of this current (currency) is a bank.

Do you have a specific examplle from Medieval times? I could well be wrong. Modern banks will finance both sides of an election, but elections are cheaper than wars.

[The Bedding]

why are we to assume that she's not "on the job" in the first place? The scene didn't read to me like a freelance killing.

To my understanding, a FM assignment is enormously expensive. Who the hell is Raff? Maybe Harys was the original target and she was surprised to see Raff in the entourage, then she spontaneously abandoned the original mission for personal vengeance. That would be more feasible to me.

[Booknerd2]

I don't know. Is this her out? Early? Or maybe not?

If this is the beginning of the end of her FM time, I am okay with that. That was a really great chapter he gave us. Edge of my seat until the end.

Maybe she doesn't get the closure back at the temple and just flees? But she didn't seem like she was pondering jetting either.

But I don't see the typical office pink slip speech from behind a desk from the Kindly Man, you know, "Listen, we are going to have to let you go…."

But this could be the penultimate event. And maybe not so early. She has to get the hell out of the area, and come on, she has to go back for Needle. By the time she gets to Westeros, and knowing poor Arya, crap will happen and stall her plans like they always do. But I think Westeros for her, no earlier than 3-5ths of the way in for book 6 if anything. Later possibly.

Tough to call it. Several possibilities.