Lord Damian Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 It is sometimes easy to condemn characters for being stupid and making really bad decisions but in Cat's case, It is really hard to fault her for some of the decisions she made. She, like other characters is not privy to the details we readers are. I am guilty of this from time to time and Cat is a perhaps the most honest and sympathetic characters in this great story. Her fatal flaws were trusting 3 people in particular: Littlefinger, her sister Lysa Tully Arryn and Lord Walder Frey. She never trusted Balon Greyjoy and warned Robb not to send Theon home. Jaime did not betray her like the prior mentioned 3 of LF, Lysa and Walder and is actively attempting to make good on his promise. Her decision to let him go however was perhaps the most stupid thing she did because it caused a major disruption in Robb's camp and opened the door to the Red Wedding. However, she trusted Lord Walder with the guest rights ceremony and in her world that was solid as a rock. Poor Cat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 It is sometimes easy to condemn characters for being stupid and making really bad decisions but in Cat's case, It is really hard to fault her for some of the decisions she made. She, like other characters is not privy to the details we readers are. I am guilty of this from time to time and Cat is a perhaps the most honest and sympathetic characters in this great story. Her fatal flaws were trusting 3 people in particular: Littlefinger, her sister Lysa Tully Arryn and Lord Walder Frey. She never trusted Balon Greyjoy and warned Robb not to send Theon home. Jaime did not betray her like the prior mentioned 3 of LF, Lysa and Walder and is actively attempting to make good on his promise. Her decision to let him go however was perhaps the most stupid thing she did because it caused a major disruption in Robb's camp and opened the door to the Red Wedding. However, she trusted Lord Walder with the guest rights ceremony and in her world that was solid as a rock. Poor Cat. Thank you, this can't be said enough. Cat and all of the other characters do not know everything that we as readers do. They shouldn't be judged as if they do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 It is sometimes easy to condemn characters for being stupid and making really bad decisions but in Cat's case, It is really hard to fault her for some of the decisions she made. She, like other characters is not privy to the details we readers are. I am guilty of this from time to time and Cat is a perhaps the most honest and sympathetic characters in this great story. Her fatal flaws were trusting 3 people in particular: Littlefinger, her sister Lysa Tully Arryn and Lord Walder Frey. She never trusted Balon Greyjoy and warned Robb not to send Theon home. Jaime did not betray her like the prior mentioned 3 of LF, Lysa and Walder and is actively attempting to make good on his promise. Her decision to let him go however was perhaps the most stupid thing she did because it caused a major disruption in Robb's camp and opened the door to the Red Wedding. However, she trusted Lord Walder with the guest rights ceremony and in her world that was solid as a rock. Poor Cat. I see Catelyn like Robb and Ned. All three have their moments and admirable aspects and are relatively good people (well while alive), and all also have made some crucial mistakes and have flaws. Some of those mistakes maybe stupid, debatable, though they aren't stupid people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Thank you, this can't be said enough. Cat and all of the other characters do not know everything that we as readers do. They shouldn't be judged as if they do Her in particular, with the exception of letting Ser Jaime go called her decisions the best she could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A wilding Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 I neither hate Cat nor love her. But anyone who would treat a step-son the way she treated Jon all his life is, in my opinion, pretty awful. I think that the issue here is that you are considering Jon to be Cat's step son, and thus bringing in all the 21st century implications and responsibilities of that relationship.In fact Jon is merely her husband's bastard, and no 21st century woman would be required to put up with having him foisted upon her. Indeed Westeros women are not usually expected to either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoravar Singh Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 One of the female characters I admire the most, I cannot understand why others would consider her dumb. yes, she made a couple of incorrect decisions ( such as freeing Jaime), but then that is high praise by Westerosi standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 She had no firm evidence, other than the hear-say of a well-known deceiver, to arrest Tyrion.That's not hearsay. LF stated directly that he lost the dagger to Tyrion in a bet. It would've been hearsay if he had told Cat that Tyrion won the dagger from someone else at a tourney where LF himself wasn't present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 She had no firm evidence, other than the hear-say of a well-known deceiver, to arrest Tyrion. LF isn't a well-known deceiver to anyone that isn't the reader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned's Sword Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 A+ thread OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Cat is a smart woman, but I wouldn't call her wise either. Her first character flaws is that while she is capable of figuring stuff out by others, she never questions her judgements and choices, especially when they are based on her emotions. When it comes to herself she has a beam in her eye. She believes she's right because she feels wronged. A second flaw is that she's one of those managers who can't delegate but does it all herself, and she does it on impulse and doesn't communicate with anyone about it. She beleives that only she can do it right. The combination of both makes for dangerous flaws. There was no need for her to go to KL. But she was incapable of trusting someone else with it, and I suspect she couldn't stand being at Bran's side anymore and she didn't want to be hassled with the accounting and management of WF. That's how she got LF to pull the whool over her eyes and even made Ned trust him. More, if she wanted to inform Ned while staying under the radar with the Lannisters, it would have been better to send someone less significant to KL. After all, she knew that Tyrion was visiting the wall, and that chances were great he'd return and visit WF. And it would look very odd for Cat not being at WF so shortly after Ned's departure and Bran being at death's door. Because she went herself she ended up at the inn with only Ser Cassel, making herself looking even more suspicious. She could have known that chances were high that she would meet Tyrion somewhere along the KR, for he had been at the Wall and would be returning at some point. As for taking him, htere was no need of that. With so many men of the Vale there the risk of being taken herself right there by a sellsword was close to 0. And if she had wanted to secure her own safety, all she needed to pretend to be doing to Tyrion was that she was on her way to visit her sister at the Vale and have the knights escort her. At KL, she agrees with LF and Ned they can't just outright accuse a Lannister to Robert without hard evidence, or it would jeopardize her daughters and Ned's life in KL. But kidnapping a Lannister and taking him hostage is the solution then? BS. Cat and Brandon sound like a perfect match of rashness. Her sister and LF knew exactly that her impulsive self-righteousness and "I'll do it myself" nature would somehow start some civil war, just like Brandon Stark's actions did 15 years before that. There had been no need for it, except the one she believed by jumping the gun on impulse and never second-guessing herself. She had known he had remained in the North and had visited the Wall. She could have predicted that he would have noted her absence on his return from the Wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Because she went herself she ended up at the inn with only Ser Cassel, making herself looking even more suspicious. She could have known that chances were high that she would meet Tyrion somewhere along the KR, for he had been at the Wall and would be returning at some point. Are you serious? Westeros is giant continent with few means of fast communication. I've actually seen a few people call this moment out as a big plot convenience. It is no strike to Catelyn's wisdom for her to not think about meeting one person in one particular place at one particular moment in time considering how big Westeros is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Big continent with only one road from KL to the Wall, that's KR. I'm not saying that she should have been prepared to meet Tyrion in that location exactly at that time, but somewhere along KR. She's going North. He's bound to go South. And both on the same road. It shouldn't matter where exactly they met. And it still doesn't make it wise or the only option to her to take him prisoner, wherever she met him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Raventree Hall Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Catelyn Tully Stark is my favorite character in the whole series, hands down. I think if she had been Queen, things would have gone better for the northerners and rivermen and women. I also think she has mostly good advice. I don't get why everyone is quick to jump on her few mistakes, as if every other character is mistake-less. Name one character that hasn't made a mistake, and I'll explain to you why Catelyn is better. Lol, anyways, I just think she tries her best and she does a hell of lot better than some other characters. Catelyn certainly wouldn't have gone to Cersei first if she had been the one in King's Landing instead of Ned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigUpHerBones Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 There is no wisdom, and no honor in that woman. if you are on a path of vengeance, which she undoubtably is, there is zero wisdom in that. she is hanging squires and boys, no honor in that either. that is why she is suffering a fate worse than death. remembering who she was, but not remembering all of the love she gave/received throughout her life, but all of the slights she suffered. the nuts and bolts of "King" Robbs' death lay solely on her shoulders. Robb was in way over his head, Cat was even more so. you had two idiots playing checkers against a chess grandmaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hodorisfaclessman Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Her in particular, with the exception of letting Ser Jaime go called her decisions the best she could. and to be fair there she had just lost her husband, father and 2 sons in short order as well as witnessing some strange shit in renlys tent so cant exactly be meant to be 100% rational Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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