Stormland's Fury Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Joff was a little shit and needed to go so I still stand by her choice. I think comparing the murder of a little psycho to save the realm from further bloodshed, and to no doubt prtotect her daughter is far more admirable than Walter Freya actions. For us, yes. In regards to Westeros, why even have laws? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch-MaesterPhilip Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Exactly and doesn't guest rights pertain to the host? She was a kingslayer and a kinslayer but not guilty of violating guest rights. Jeffrey wasn't under her protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormland's Fury Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Exactly and doesn't guest rights pertain to the host? She was a kingslayer and a kinslayer but not guilty of violating guest rights. Jeffrey wasn't under her protection. It goes both ways... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Priest Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 She should be punished, she killed a 13 year old boy. Joff was still young enough to be straightened out - three years is a long time and just six months away from Cersei would have done the job or maybe through Lord Tywin's 'sharp lessons'. To compare him to a 40 year old mad man is too unfair. And that 'noblest child' line is the reason why I dislike Pycelle above all almost other characters and rejoiced when the Spider killed him. What a worm!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted June 7, 2014 Author Share Posted June 7, 2014 Joffrey was never the rightful king, so she won't get punished for kingslaying. Joffrey was about to be very harmful to Tyrion, so Olenna was just defending Tyrion before Joffrey broke guest right. Yes, I'm being extremely biased here, and idgaf. Joffrey was widely recognized as the rightful King. He wasn't, but that's irrelevant. Walder Frey committed Kingslaying when he killed Robb. Euron committed Kingslaying when he killed Balon. Olenna committed Kingslaying when she killed Joffrey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Legally, yes. She's guilty of murder and committing a cultural taboo. Story wise... I hope she gets away with it. Joffrey was a monster and everyone in-universe thinks he deserved it. No one mourns him but Cersei. Olenna is old as dirt anyway. What satisfaction will I get as a reader if she was tried and executed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Of Cooked Steak Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Yeah she should, but let's be honest, do we really want her to be punished? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted June 7, 2014 Author Share Posted June 7, 2014 Legally, yes. She's guilty of murder and committing a cultural taboo. Story wise... I hope she gets away with it. Joffrey was a monster and everyone in-universe thinks he deserved it. No one mourns him but Cersei. Olenna is old as dirt anyway. What satisfaction will I get as a reader if she was tried and executed? Walder Frey's even older. They both need to be punished for their crimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan of House Matheny Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 The Queen of Thorns definitely broke guest right and is a kingslayer but who is going to do anything about, the Seven? I think GRRM made it clear the the Seven's power to give cosmic justice is pretty weak. (Or else Tyrion would have been found innocent in his Trial by Combat). As far as I know, only Littlefinger or Sansa could implicate her for the crime but I doubt they will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Walder Frey's even older. They both need to be punished for their crimes. Punished how? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted June 7, 2014 Author Share Posted June 7, 2014 Punished how? I'm not sure, but the IB are passing through the Reach. Maybe they'll pay a visit to Highgarden. As for Walder Frey, the Riverlords, Stoneheart and the BW hate the Freys for what they've done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 I'm not sure, but the IB are passing through the Reach. Maybe they'll pay a visit to Highgarden. As for Walder Frey, the Riverlords, Stoneheart and the BW hate the Freys for what they've done. You want the Ironborn to beat down Highgarden because Olenna killed Joffrey? That's a lot of unnecessary death and carnage because Olenna killed Joffrey (of all people). I just don't care about Joffrey. Not after what he did to Ned and Sansa. I think Olenna did everyone a favor. As for Walder Frey... we agree there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted June 7, 2014 Author Share Posted June 7, 2014 You want the Ironborn to beat down Highgarden because Olenna killed Joffrey? That's a lot of unnecessary death and carnage because Olenna killed Joffrey (of all people). I just don't care about Joffrey. Not after what he did to Ned and Sansa. I think Olenna did everyone a favor. As for Walder Frey... we agree there. That's the fate of those who break guest rights. If Olenna should have thought about that before she broke the rules. That's your choice. Joffrey was a little shit, but he was under the protection of guest rights. Her time is coming. And it's coming fast. Eh? Joffrey didn't do anything particularly bad to Ned. He executed him for treason. A quick death. No torture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Olenna broke not only guest right, but Joffrey waskin by virtue of marriage to her granddaughter, as well as her king. I think she eventually will lose her head for it. I think if Sansa is brought back to KL for trial then Olenna would possibly confess when Sansa is put onto the block, and Payne raises his sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormund GiantsMANE Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 if Joff's bastardy would be revealed, would the marriage be nullified? would his claim to the throne also be null and void? would they lannisters/baratheons have and "guest right" to offer anyone,given their unrightful place in KL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted June 7, 2014 Author Share Posted June 7, 2014 if Joff's bastardy would be revealed, would the marriage be nullified? would his claim to the throne also be null and void? would they lannisters/baratheons have and "guest right" to offer anyone,given their unrightful place in KL? No. It would still be breaking guest rights. Just like LF had no business being in the LF, but attacking him would be breaking guest rights. I'm pretty sure that Joffrey being a bastard is an open secret that everyone's ignoring because they don't want Stannis as King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maid So Fair Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 No. Ned was a hostage. And when Jaime attacked Neds men, they weren't guests. It was out in the street. Killing Ned would be comparable to Ned killing Theon if Balon rebelled. It wouldn't be breaking guest rights. He was a hostage only because they arrested him and made him one, same as Sansa. He wasn't a hostage when he came to Red Keep at the invitation of the King. If the Freys thew Robb into a dungeon and then executed him some time later they would presumably still be breaking the guest right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormund GiantsMANE Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 No. It would still be breaking guest rights. Just like LF had no business being in the LF, but attacking him would be breaking guest rights. I'm pretty sure that Joffrey being a bastard is an open secret that everyone's ignoring because they don't want Stannis as King. LF did have business there though. He married the widow of the lord protector, and became stepfather to his heir. Even if he did all of this through unseemly acts (that would be very difficult to prove) he still ends up in a position where he has power that is very difficult to challenge . When Lysa dies who is gonna run things? Sweetrobin? How do the Lords declarant even know of her death if not for info being allowed out. He invites them up because he's the one with the power to extend an invitation. The whole reason the LD speak of Corbay's threat as a violation of GR is because they all think that LF DOES have the right to be there, even if they don't like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted June 7, 2014 Author Share Posted June 7, 2014 He was a hostage only because they arrested him and made him one, same as Sansa. He wasn't a hostage when he came to Red Keep at the invitation of the King. If the Freys thew Robb into a dungeon and then executed him some time later they would presumably still be breaking the guest right. No they wouldn't. Robert was dead and Joffrey was King. Joffrey didn't invite him, but he did make him a hostage. Killing Ned wasn't breaking guest rights because Ned wasn't a guest. He was a prisoner. That's why even in Universe, killing Ned wasn't considered breaking guest rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted June 7, 2014 Author Share Posted June 7, 2014 LF did have business there though. He married the widow of the lord protector, and became stepfather to his heir. Even if he did all of this through unseemly acts (that would be very difficult to prove) he still ends up in a position where he has power that is very difficult to challenge . When Lysa dies who is gonna run things? Sweetrobin? How do the Lords declarant even know of her death if not for info being allowed out. He invites them up because he's the one with the power to extend an invitation. The whole reason the LD speak of Corbay's threat as a violation of GR is because they all think that LF DOES have the right to be there, even if they don't like it. Lysa was dead and he wasn't related to SR. It's not difficult to challenge. As the LD's tell him, he had zero business being in the Eyrie after Lysa died. The only reason they let him stay, was because Corbray weakened their position by unsheathing his sword. Most likely one of the Highlords of the Vale would take over. That's why the Lords Declarant went to the Vale. Exactly. It's breaking guest right because LF lives there. Joffrey lives in the Red Keep and was raised as Roberts son. Olenna Tyrell broke guest rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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