assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Being punished for guest right depends on people knowing you've broken it. So, no, Olenna probably won't ever have to pay the piper for Joffrey.And that's even assuming that one thinks the Tyrells were bound to guest right at all (I think it's iffy). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany Girl Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 We'll if Loras really was injured storming Storm's End then I guess there's your karmic retribution for Olenns, along with every family member or bannermen or vassel that gets killed or injured during the IB invasion. Seems that's the kind of retribution the Gods would lay down. As for being punished by actual people, she'd have to get caught first, and I kinda doubt that'll happen. And if it does eventually come out, I doubt the Lannisters will still be in power to do anything about it, and it's not like the new ruling power would care she killed Joffrey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted June 7, 2014 Author Share Posted June 7, 2014 Being punished for guest right depends on people knowing you've broken it. So, no, Olenna probably won't ever have to pay the piper for Joffrey.And that's even assuming that one thinks the Tyrells were bound to guest right at all (I think it's iffy).I said it before and I'll say it again, Jaime wasn't punished for pushing Bran out a window and Theon wasn't punished for killing the Miller's Kids. GRRM has a habit of punishing people who act amorally, and murdering your host by the standards of the series is a great crime. We'll if Loras really was injured storming Storm's End then I guess there's your karmic retribution for Olenns, along with every family member or bannermen or vassel that gets killed or injured during the IB invasion. Seems that's the kind of retribution the Gods would lay down.As for being punished by actual people, she'd have to get caught first, and I kinda doubt that'll happen. And if it does eventually come out, I doubt the Lannisters will still be in power to do anything about it, and it's not like the new ruling power would care she killed Joffrey.If Stannis is the new ruling power, I can see him killing Olenna. Just like I can see him punishing the Frey's for what they did to Robb, even though Robb was a usurper to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 If GRRM is going to punish Tyrells for acting amorally then breaking guest right and killing Joffrey is probably going to be the tip of the iceberg. I doubt they would be punished exclusively for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VisenyaLives Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 But first someone needs to out her to be accused Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Song so Sweet Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 It really doesn't apply. Guest right applies when a host welcomes someone under their roof. Then the host cannot harm the guest and vice versa. Olenna was not a guest in Joffrey's house and offered food and drink, she was invited to a wedding. It's sooooo different. Also we don't know if she planted the poison and kill him herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted June 7, 2014 Author Share Posted June 7, 2014 It really doesn't apply. Guest right applies when a host welcomes someone under their roof. Then the host cannot harm the guest and vice versa. Olenna was not a guest in Joffrey's house and offered food and drink, she was invited to a wedding. It's sooooo different. Also we don't know if she planted the poison and kill him herself. You mean like Walder Frey and Robb? No. Walder and Olenna broke guest rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 I said it before and I'll say it again, Jaime wasn't punished for pushing Bran out a window and Theon wasn't punished for killing the Miller's Kids. GRRM has a habit of punishing people who act amorally, and murdering your host by the standards of the series is a great crime.Your point is ... what, exactly?The miller's kids were neither guests nor hosts of Theon's. And Jaime had his hand chopped off (and the people who know what he did are either dead or keeping their mouths shut, in which case, who's going to punish him for that?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 You mean like Walder Frey and Robb? No. Walder and Olenna broke guest rights.The difference is that Walder Frey got caught (and wasn't really even trying to hide it), and Olenna wasn't. It's kind of a big goddamn difference, I would think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormland's Fury Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Olenna was not a guest in Joffrey's house and offered food and drink, she was invited to a wedding. It's sooooo different. Wedding guests are so out of fashion. Guess they're only invitees... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormland's Fury Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 The difference is that Walder Frey got caught (and wasn't really even trying to hide it), and Olenna wasn't. It's kind of a big goddamn difference, I would think. Got caught? He advertised the whole thing throughout the realm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkerDragon Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 First off, Joffrey was killed at his wedding and never consumated the marriage meaning Olenna is not a Kinslayer Secondly, Kingslaying is not punished by the gods Thirdly, guest right is not infinite. Olenna and the Tyrells were marrying into the Lannisters and were no longer guests. HoweverThe Seven have not punished anyone for Kinslaying, Kingslaying, or breaking guest rightWalder and the Freys are being punished by The OLD GODS. In the south the Old gods have no power. Most of all it only matter if people are aware that the deed was commited. If all of Westeros is oblivious to your actions then you can get away scot free. (Except the North) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted June 7, 2014 Author Share Posted June 7, 2014 Your point is ... what, exactly?The miller's kids were neither guests nor hosts of Theon's. And Jaime had his hand chopped off (and the people who know what he did are either dead or keeping their mouths shut, in which case, who's going to punish him for that?).The point is that they acted amorally by the standards of the series and were punished for it. It's not just what the character know The difference is that Walder Frey got caught (and wasn't really even trying to hide it), and Olenna wasn't. It's kind of a big goddamn difference, I would think.No. Not really. Again. People who act amorally in the series are punished. Laser guided Karma. Olenna has it coming, and it's probably coming in the form of the IB..Methinks, people just want her to get away with it because it was Joffrey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted June 7, 2014 Author Share Posted June 7, 2014 First off, Joffrey was killed at his wedding and never consumated the marriage meaning Olenna is not a Kinslayer Secondly, Kingslaying is not punished by the gods Thirdly, guest right is not infinite. Olenna and the Tyrells were marrying into the Lannisters and were no longer guests. However The Seven have not punished anyone for Kinslaying, Kingslaying, or breaking guest right Walder and the Freys are being punished by The OLD GODS. In the south the Old gods have no power. Most of all it only matter if people are aware that the deed was commited. If all of Westeros is oblivious to your actions then you can get away scot free. (Except the North) Of course they were guests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormland's Fury Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Thirdly, guest right is not infinite. Olenna and the Tyrells were marrying into the Lannisters and were no longer guests. The Redwyne widow who comes to the wedding of her Tyrell granddaughter is not a guest? If my mother comes over my house she's a guest, because she's not living with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Got caught? He advertised the whole thing throughout the realm.Well yeah, but that's why comparing Walder to Olenna is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 The point is that they acted amorally by the standards of the series and were punished for it. It's not just what the character know No. Not really. Again. People who act amorally in the series are punished. Laser guided Karma. Olenna has it coming, and it's probably coming in the form of the IB..Methinks, people just want her to get away with it because it was Joffrey.Amoral and immoral are not the same thing.ETA: To expand on this, Jaime tried to murder an innocent child, and Theon did murder two innocent children. Those were IMMORAL acts. The karmic punishment they received (and I'd argue that both were punished by the wrong people for the wrong reasons) makes some level of sense because of the innocent nature of those against whom they did violence. Whereas Joffrey was a sadistic psychopath who would have been an awful king. Olenna spared the realm from his rule, and yet you think she deserves karmic retribution on par with murdering/attempted murdering of actual innocent children? Bizarre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormland's Fury Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Well yeah, but that's why comparing Walder to Olenna is ridiculous. http://thesecondtake.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/scott-baio-tumblr.png Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkerDragon Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 The Redwyne widow who comes to the wedding of her Tyrell granddaughter is not a guest? If my mother comes over my house she's a guest, because she's not living with me. Tyrells not everyone who was invited to the wedding. In the example you gave you're mother visits after not visiting for sometime. In this case the Tyrells have been in King's Landing for quite some time. They are in fact, living with the Lannisters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormland's Fury Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Tyrells not everyone who was invited to the wedding. In the example you gave you're mother visits after not visiting for sometime. In this case the Tyrells have been in King's Landing for quite some time. They are in fact, living with the Lannisters Olenna doesn't live there. In fact Tyrells like Garlan and his wife leave again immediately after the wedding. Willas didn't even set foot in King's Landing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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