[No Spoilers] EP409 Discussion

[AryaSansa]

Hated this episode. There was no plot, just fight scenes. Also, the fighting didn't make any sense. Why would Mance send people behind the wall to attack during a "test run"? Why not send all your forces behind the wall?

Also, why were there so few wildlings attacking the gate? Why did the giant who lifted the gate go inside? He should have held it open and propped it up so everyone could get through.

I like Blackwater much better!

Also, I hate that little boy for killing Ygritte. And the way they portrayed Ygritte's death was terrible. At least let her loosen the bow indicating that she wasn't going to kill Jon. Or have Ygritte kill that bald dude just before he was going to kill Jon. I wish Jon Snow would die, he's an annoying character.

So were there really 100,000 wildlings? I just saw a big bush fire, but not many wildlings.

I really hoped the wildlings would win. The wildlings are like the Germanic tribes vs the Roman Empire. We always see the Germans lose, like in Gladiator, was hoping they'd win this time :)

[valirpaz]

what do you think will happen to jorah now? if he actually does stay away from dany, what would his storyline be where else could he go? maybe to night's watch if he thinks his father is still alive?

Considering how they portraied him I can't see that he changes sides. He seems like the kind of guy who would still look for ways to support her from a distance. For example go back to Westeros and send her useful information. Or try to forge new alliances in Braavos. maybe it's also an option to have him disappear.

what happens to arya and the hound do you think they still go inside the vale, will they finda sansa or will they stay out on their own

From how the stories have developed so far, I doubt there will be a reunion. Arya was so close before, and Brann / Jon were so close too and it didn't happen. They could still go in but maybe Sansa is travelling around, and if they meet at all, I think it will be short before some other dramatic event occurs.

Also, why were there so few wildlings attacking the gate? Why did the giant who lifted the gate go inside? He should have held it open and propped it up so everyone could get through.

I agree with you on that, I also thought that about the giant.

And the way they portrayed Ygritte's death was terrible. At least let her loosen the bow indicating that she wasn't going to kill Jon.

Yes but why? Wasn't her hesitating close to it? She indicated she was unsure about whether she should kill him. Would loosening the bow rightaway fit her character? She fired three (or four?) arrows into him last time. So I thought this ambiguity in the scene fit.

I wish Jon Snow would die, he's an annoying character.

Can you maybe explain? It's natural everyone has characters they like and dislike, I'm just interested in what/why you find him annoying.

I really hoped the wildlings would win. The wildlings are like the Germanic tribes vs the Roman Empire. We always see the Germans lose, like in Gladiator, was hoping they'd win this time :)

Who knows maybe Jon can negotiate a compromise. The North is lost anyways, so what does it matter if it's controlled by the Lannisters or by Wildlings, provided they settled down in their original lands and did not slay everyone? So far I see your point but don't feel much about the Wildlings. Would have been different if say, Jon stayed with them longer and we got more attachment. Or if they were at the border of King's landings with the real contrast yes, but the North is more Central European Knights rather than Romans, I'm not sure I'd like to see all these lands being pillaged and burnt and butchered.

PS: [off topic] I do agree with you though that in popular film or also in documentaries (e.g. Rome - Rise and Fall of an Empire) there's quite a imbalanced storytelling about the "good, civil" Romans (how brutally they may be) vs the scary ruthless "barbarians".

[ma_liky]

Thanks, nice to hear! Although it must be funny to see people wildly guess about things that you already know. ;)

I think that's how I will spend part of this year too: re-watch the 4 seasons. We should then open a non spoiler thread to discuss our new connections. My problem is that in a book I could flip back and forth pages where somebody is from who he is related to, check maps. Whereas on TV I forget things and think by this I miss a lot too, probably a lot more connections could be made with more attention to detail.

I have to say that I am very interested about the story and history of GOT, so I managed to read something that had happened before the beggining of the story, staying out of spoilers of what is going to happen in the future. I explored the maps and the houses history, some "creatures" and some people who and what somethings are and how they managed to be where they are. I dont know if all of that is written in the books but it gave a depth to the story and my knowlage of matters in GOT. And I have to admit that that made me more interested and amaized how big and detailed is the world of GOT.

Hated this episode. There was no plot, just fight scenes. Also, the fighting didn't make any sense. Why would Mance send people behind the wall to attack during a "test run"? Why not send all your forces behind the wall?

Also, why were there so few wildlings attacking the gate? Why did the giant who lifted the gate go inside? He should have held it open and propped it up so everyone could get through.

I like Blackwater much better!

Also, I hate that little boy for killing Ygritte. And the way they portrayed Ygritte's death was terrible. At least let her loosen the bow indicating that she wasn't going to kill Jon. Or have Ygritte kill that bald dude just before he was going to kill Jon. I wish Jon Snow would die, he's an annoying character.

So were there really 100,000 wildlings? I just saw a big bush fire, but not many wildlings.

I really hoped the wildlings would win. The wildlings are like the Germanic tribes vs the Roman Empire. We always see the Germans lose, like in Gladiator, was hoping they'd win this time :)

I can understand why you didnt like the episode, we all have ours preferences in the show and want to see our favourite characters develop quickly and their stories in every episode. But this is why this show is great because it has so many characters and stories and everyone is given enough time. I loved this episode because GOT can allow themselfs to have a whole episode about no story movent, or is it?

I dont aggree with you about almost everything. The whole episode I thought she would kill Jon I thought this to the point before she dies. She hesitated it is well seen, doesnt matter who killed her. She couldnt kill Jon.

I understand that all have their favourite characters but saying that Jon should be dead I dont understand. I would also like to hear why. I think Jon is one of rare who is honest and true. He is loyal and in somewhat naive, but that gives him innocence and honor. He is one of the characters that is uncorrupted and actualy good. He is still to grow in seasons to come. His goodnes should be nurtured.

I think that there are 100.000 wildings, but why put them all in the first battel. The war is still to come. It is the question of who will come to aid the NW. And the fact that White Walkers are close and the wildings are running away from them too. So even alliance is probable. The real enemy are White walkers and how to stop them is true challenge.

[ma_liky]

i think littlefinger was pro lannister early on because he saw them as the greatest way for him to get more power. so he did whatever he could to "help" them, but mostly looking out for himself and what was in his best interests to get the most power. once he started realizing how much of a douche joffery was and how he was uncontrollable, he made new alliances with the tyrells. there is some point where he is talking on the ship to sansa about both alliances and how the one with the tyrells was the easier or safer option. with maybe vary's being the only one who is close to litlefinger, he is definetly heads above everyone else i think with long term planning and strategy

just some things to think about moving into the final episode

what do you think will happen to jorah now? if he actually does stay away from dany, what would his storyline be where else could he go? maybe to night's watch if he thinks his father is still alive?

believe tyrion will definitely be sentenced to death, not quite sure whether it will happen or not, if anyone comes to his aid i believe it will be jaime

what happens to arya and the hound do you think they still go inside the vale, will they finda sansa or will they stay out on their own

I think Jorah will stay somewhere close to Meereen. He loves Dany he will try to stay close. I think first he will get drunk and cry about losing Dany but than trying to get back to her what ever the price. ;) this is what I would do. I feel sorry for him, it was too harsh on him he didnt deserve it. He was indeed loyal to her and truly loves her. But this is why he should have been honest with her, if he had told her at the beggining and admited himself I think she would have forgiven him, but finding out like this how can she trust him again.

I realy hope Tyrion will somehow manage to escape, and I think if some one is to help him it is Jamie. In my eyes Jamie will get some plus points for this. :)

Well I am confused about what happens with Arya and the Hound, maybe he will try to randsome her to Jon now at the wall and join the NW. I dont think they will find Sansa, because no one knows that Sansa is Sansa they think she is Littlefingers niece, some Lords do but non who is able to tell Arya. So they will have to do something else. Maybe Arya escapes or he lets her go. I am interestid to se how it plays out.

Edited June 13, 2014 by ma_liky

[valirpaz]

Well I am confused about what happens with Arya and the Hound, maybe he will try to randsome her to Jon now at the wall and join the NW. I dont think they will find Sansa, because no one knows that Sansa is Sansa they think she is Littlefingers niece, some Lords do but non who is able to tell Arya. So they will have to do something else. Maybe Arya escapes or he lets her go. I am interestid to se how it plays out.

This is a very good point you made. In the discussion thread of the last episode I said about the aunt's death: "generally I don't see, how this should change their plans. Yes the aunt's dead but that still means that she's got her cousin in the vale and shouldn't make it less safe for her. And if you apply traditional nobility values her cousin would still reward the hound. But I'm sure there'll be an event why that won't happen."

But now, with what you said, if Arya learns that Baelish has custody of her cousin and thus in a powerful position - that might be a reason why Arya will not enter the Vale - and thus not meet Sansa.

I think Arya and the Hound will stick together. They are a great combination and by now I think Arya starts to like the Hound and vice versa. Also she thinks she has no family left so he's the only one who protects her in these dangerous lands. I'm not sure Jon would be such a logical choice to go to: Doesn't being in the watch basically mean you live without much property? How could the Hound think he could get any money off Jon? But moving North would be an interesting turn: it would be very dangerous because around Winterfell people would probably recognise her. And where else would they move (other than that Arya has to end up in Braavos. ;)

[Jon Snоw]

Anyone noticed Neil Marshall in one scene? :cool4:

http://imgur.com/oLlUCHO

Edited June 30, 2014 by Džon.Snežni