Evidence for a certain character being Azor Ahai based on Valyrian

[AeksioOnos]

http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/27e5t8/spoilers_all_lord_of_light_is_a_valyrian/

If you read the link it comes to the conclusion that Jaime Lannister is Azor Ahai. The main piece of evidence being that Lord of Light and Golden Hand share almost identical Valyrian words.

Aeksio Onos = Lord of Light in Valyrian

Aeksion Ondos = Golden Hand in Valyrian

You can confirm the words and their translation here: http://wiki.dothraki.org/High_Valyrian_Vocabulary

The poster's theory is that Lord of Light is simply mistranslated, and that it was originally Golden Hand. Its fairly plausible, IMO, since the two terms differ in only two letters.

[AeksioOnos]

After some googling, I think this theory has a lot to it. I found that the legend of "Pandora's Box" was actually mistranslated and it's actually a jar. Erasmus of Rotterdam translated the Greek word for jar into the Latin one for box because both are similar looking words. So there is some historical validity to mistranslated legends.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandora#Pithos_into_.22box.22

It would be a very GRRM thing to do for the prophesy to end up being a messed up translation.

[Kienn]

This is old since there's no need to resort to the new Valyrian developed for tv...

Aurum(Latin name for gold) also means shining dawn and is related to many other words for light such as aura or aurora

[AeksioOnos]

This is old since there's no need to resort to the new Valyrian developed for tv...

Aurum(Latin name for gold) also means shining dawn and is related to many other words for light such as aura or aurora

How old are the Valyrian words? I know GRRM came up with a few on his own, but the entire language was fleshed out with someone else.

[Victarion Chainbreaker]

Jaime is about to die in a smoky cave amidst Brienne's salty tears, in the presence of the only guy in the books who has ever successfully performed resurrection. It's either a sound theory or one hell of a red herring.

[ckal]

Oh? Tell me more about how non-GRRM created words provdie irrefutable evidence that a certain prophecy is true.

[AeksioOnos]

I couldn't find the Valyrian word for dawn, but I found the one for Sun.

vēzos - Sun

vēzenka - solar

So i think it's clear that the Valyrian words for Sun (vezos) and Gold (aeksion) have no relation.

[AeksioOnos]

Oh? Tell me more about how non-GRRM created words provdie irrefutable evidence that a certain prophecy is true.

GRRM created the skeletal structure of the language and someone else worked to finish it. Many important terms were created by GRRM himself.

The probability of creating a language from scratch that has Lord of Light and Golden Hand being almost identical is very low, unless it's intentional.

[Maester2chainz]

I Read a theory about Beric having lightbringer in him and it needing to be tempered by 3 other people to make light bringer.

Catlyn - Water/ Fish

Lion Jaime/ Cersei

Brienee??? - Nissa Nissa

The golden hand certainly certainly applies to Jaime

[shk12344]

So Jamie is going to the one defeating the Others??? I guess Jon Snow has been wasting his time at the Wall. He should have been fucking his half sisters rather than dedicating his life to defend the realm against Wildlings and the Others.

[AeksioOnos]

So Jamie is going to the one defeating the Others??? I guess Jon Snow has been wasting his time at the Wall. He should have been fucking his half sisters rather than dedicating his life to defend the realm against Wildlings and the Others.

That's some really terrible logic. The Last Hero fought the others, as did the Prince that was promised. There is no need Jaime to be the only one of the legendary heroes to fight them. Jon Snow could easily be The Last Hero and fight the Others.

[shk12344]

That's some really terrible logic. The Last Hero fought the others, as did the Prince that was promised. There is no need Jaime to be the only one of the legendary heroes to fight them. Jon Snow could easily be The Last Hero and fight the Others.

What would be the point of having 2 or 3 different "heroes"?? So Jamie is Azor Ahai, despite the fact that he hasn't got a clue what's going on the north?? Perhaps Jon and Jamie will become tag team hero like Batman and Robin?? Perhaps it will be threesome of Dany, Tyrion and Stannis? Dany could be PTWP, Tyrion could be Azor Ahai Reborn and Stannis could be Last Hero, Three Musketeers of Westoros.

In the Five books, there is only one major character written specifically who has dedicated his life to defend the realm against the Others. Jon Snow. Jon Snow will be AAR/PTWP/Last Hero.

[TheFloyd1]

I can't see why that would be useful in the slightest. Apart from creating a cheap twist of course!

I think the interpretation of Cersi Lannister's death prophecy referring to Jaime is far more likely, and would be great poetic justice.

[AeksioOnos]

I can't see why that would be useful in the slightest. Apart from creating a cheap twist of course!

I think the interpretation of Cersi Lannister's death prophecy referring to Jaime is far more likely, and would be great poetic justice.

Martin has said that prophesy is unreliable many times. It wouldn't be a cheap trick, it would be very realistic. Anyone translating documents is likely to see Aeksion Ondos (Golden Hand) and think that Aeksio Onos (Lord of Light) makes more sense in the context of an ancient warrior that saved the Earth from darkness. Translation errors like this have occurred many,many times in history.

[Heir to Winterfell]

Perhaps it is in this context that GRRM stated Jamiewould best Aaragorn in a fight. At first I thought it was preposterous, but if Jamie eventually becomes AAR, then it makes a little more sense.

Linky: http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/GraphicCity/news/?a=69724

[TheFloyd1]

Martin has said that prophesy is unreliable many times. It wouldn't be a cheap trick, it would be very realistic. Anyone translating documents is likely to see Aeksion Ondos (Golden Hand) and think that Aeksio Onos (Lord of Light) makes more sense in the context of an ancient warrior that saved the Earth from darkness. Translation errors like this have occurred many,many times in history.

You're stating one prophesy is shaking, and then referring to the prophecy of a shaky religion which could involve some dark forces. Not a whole lot is known about the lord of light, or its followers, there is even some doubts if the priests themselves always believe there prophecies.

But all that is pointless, when you simply look at it from a writing point of view, and basically what is being suggested here is that George turns around and says "But guys look! Jaime Lannister was the chosen one all along!" That just seems odd to me, and I think a good few people would reject that. Unless they're Jaime Lannister fans of course.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

This requires a veritable shitload of assumptions to make it work, with the fundamental one being: the author for some reason decided to place an important hint not in the novels, not in the accompanying short stories, not even in the TV show, but bury it deep, deep, deep into companion material to said TV show. Occam says BS.

[TheFloyd1]

This requires a veritable shitload of assumptions to make it work, with the fundamental one being: the author for some reason decided to place an important hint not in the novels, not in the accompanying short stories, not even in the TV show, but bury it deep, deep, deep into companion material to said TV show. Occam says BS.

You successfully put to words, what I was trying to say, and for that I thank you.

[AeksioOnos]

This requires a veritable shitload of assumptions to make it work, with the fundamental one being: the author for some reason decided to place an important hint not in the novels, not in the accompanying short stories, not even in the TV show, but bury it deep, deep, deep into companion material to said TV show. Occam says BS.

It makes perfect sense actually. GRRM made up certain Valyrian words ahead of time and Valyrian is used very frequently on the show. It would make sense that they would be spoken on the TV show for the first time as lord, light, gold, hand are fairly common words. They obviously wouldn't be used in those specific phrases, but the words themselves are there and defined. Jaime Lannister could easily pull a burning sword from Brienne's chest after Stoneheart forces them to fight. Jaime/Brienne is one of the few instances of actual love between characters. The point is that the translations don't become important until that moment. That's when the Maester's and Red Priests actually look back and make the connection.

Jaime Lannister is the villian from the very first chapter of the book. It would be GRRM's style to make him the chosen one.

Occam's razor says Lord of Light and Golden Hand being nearly identical is NOT a coincidence. It takes planning and foresight to do that, especially since Light, Gold, and Sun are all unrelated in the language. It was a conscious decision to make them almost exactly the same.

[Nemesis21]

Interesting catch. I love how people can find some of the most minute details and find some correlations like this. Maybe I don't have the attention to detail to pick up things like this, much less even thinking about analyzing the Valarian language. Jaime's character arc seems to be leading up to something major like this and if he is alive by the time we see more of The Others, I see no reason why characters like Jaime would not be heading north and fighting them.

That being said, I can't imagine that most/all of these prophecies are going to have a cut and dry affiliated character from ASOIAF. Like how Daenerys fits tptwp and people still believe that others like Jon could be. Maybe once all the facts are in we can say for certain who all of these prophecies were referencing. If I was betting though, I would say there will be others that fit, more or less, into the vague molds of the prophecies.

GRRM likes to work things from multiple angles/interpretations and maybe Jaime AND Jon(etc.) will be partial reflections of this prophecy. I like having some open interpretation of the prophecies. I think it would be boring as hell if Jon turns out to be irrefutably aar/tptwp/last hero.