Fragile Bird Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 The extremist group The Islamist State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) has taken control of the cities of Mosul and Tikrit in Iraq, have taken the members of the Turkish consul in Mosul hostage as well as Turkish citizens, mainly truck drivers, and are now moving on Baghdad, well armed with lots of US supplied military equipment abandoned by Iraqi soldiers and captured at Iraqi military bases. The group is reputedly so extreme even Al-Quaeda didn't want to unite with them. After the lengthy war in Iraq, where many Americans, Brits and military from a dozen other countries died, does the world step back in? Britain and NATO have already said no. But presumably we are now going to be faced by a massive, well organized terrorist organization with a rich country to draw resources from to attack nations around the world. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Seems like it was a bad idea before and not much better now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted June 12, 2014 Author Share Posted June 12, 2014 Aye, there's the rub. The idea of ISIS in control of Iraq and Syria strongly suggests an eventual showdown with Israel though. There may not be any helping it, eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 To me the world is becoming more and more of a place where the best course of action is to seal your borders and bomb anyone who approaches the perimeter of your nation.Just seal the rest of the chaotic, crazy human race out and let them do what they will in the rest of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bennis of the Brown Shield Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Better get "involved" with Saudi Arabia and the UAE if you want to do something about the spread of extreme Islamist movements. That's where they get most of their funding from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S John Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I'm pretty much an isolationist these days... so no, we shouldn't do anything. The US, especially, should do nothing. We make so many of our own problems by interfering in other places and it is past time to stop. We need to be spending taxpayer dollars on education, research, infrastructure, and healthcare in the United States. Not continuously making international messes that we then cannot clean up. Its funny, I often read another board that is MUCH more politically mixed than this one and a lot of the conservative folks over there are blaming Obama for 'surrendering' and causing the situation in Iraq. I about blew my top on that one and had to deal out some internet beat downs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 To me the world is becoming more and more of a place where the best course of action is to seal your borders and bomb anyone who approaches the perimeter of your nation.Just seal the rest of the chaotic, crazy human race out and let them do what they will in the rest of the world. I thought your ideal was to have people "voluntarily" move into homogenous enclaves so they never have to deal with the discomfort of dealing with people who are different from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of the North Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Its funny, I often read another board that is MUCH more politically mixed than this one and a lot of the conservative folks over there are blaming Obama for 'surrendering' and causing the situation in Iraq. I about blew my top on that one and had to deal out some internet beat downs. I saw that Boehner himself is making hay with this sort of rhetoric right now :stillsick: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straits Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Of course, it's easy to say that if NATO roflstomped (think I will use this term again, I quite like it) these terrorists then the situation could be resolved quickly... but of course that would mean a political nightmare. Over here, at least. Did they actually roflstomp anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Yes. Involvement doesn't necessary mean boots on the ground, so the world should get involved in some other way regardless. Letting these vicious terrorists get this much power is like letting cancer take over the body. There's no reason to just sit and let these barbarians bring part of the world to ruin. Drone strikes would have to be conducted very carefully, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S John Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Yes. Involvement doesn't necessary mean boots on the ground, so the world should get involved in some other way regardless. Letting these vicious terrorists get this much power is like letting cancer take over the body. There's no reason to just sit and let these barbarians bring part of the world to ruin. Drone strikes would have to be conducted very carefully, though. Drones have killed a lot of civilians in rural areas of Afghanistan and Pakistan. Unlike those places, Iraq is mostly urban. These ISIS guys are not stupid. They will not set up little forts on the outskirts of town so we can conveniently bomb them with no collateral damage. They will be in amongst the population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Drones have killed a lot of civilians in rural areas of Afghanistan and Pakistan. Unlike those places, Iraq is mostly urban. These ISIS guys are not stupid. They will not set up little forts on the outskirts of town so we can conveniently bomb them with no collateral damage. They will be in amongst the population. I voiced my doubts at the end of the post. I still think the world should get involved somehow. Extremist Muslims are no better, if not worse and more vicious, than Nazis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Godwin wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperry Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Godwin wins. The comparison isn't perfect, but comparing one group of genocidal maniacs with ambitions of global dominance to another isn't really that far off base or inappropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straits Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 The comparison isn't perfect, but comparing one group of genocidal maniacs with ambitions of global dominance to another isn't really that far off base or inappropriate. Except one of them gained full legitimacy pretty quickly whereas the other is still considered a fringe group. I voiced my doubts at the end of the post. I still think the world should get involved somehow. Extremist Muslims are no better, if not worse and more vicious, than Nazis. What metric are you using to measure this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Except one of them gained full legitimacy pretty quickly whereas the other is still considered a fringe group. What metric are you using to measure this? The comparison isn't intended to be perfect, and indeed, no comparison is perfect unless you compare identical things like Superman and Clark Kent. It's not relevant if one of them "gained full legitimacy" or not. The only thing that's relevant is what their beliefs are, and what they're willing to do to accomplish them. Just take a look at all the people they execute and needlessly kill, and what they want to do to places like Israel and people who aren't Sunni Muslims. The comparison should be clear and obvious then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S John Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 My point is not that Islamic extremism is not bad. Its more like: Remember the last time we invaded Iraq and it devolved into civil war shortly after we left? (and, actually, kinda while we were there too) I'm pretty sure we have exhausted our efforts to undo the situation that we caused in Iraq in 2003 and I do not think that US military intervention in Iraq (again) is going to solve its problems unless it was some real fire and brimstone shit. In reality we'd be right back to square 1 in fighting an insurgency and we apparently are not very good at that. Partly because we are rightfully squeamish about civilian casualties. The US spent 8 years building and training an Iraqi Army that either collaborated with ISIS or turned tail and ran at the first sign of trouble. In either case, what good will more nation-building do? I think free ideas need to be homegrown, you can't inflict your ideology on someone that isn't ready or willing to hear it unless you are willing to spend generations doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarl the climber Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 What happens if the US does not get involved? I guess Iran, Jordan, Saudia Arabia, the Gulf States, Jordan, Hezballah, Syria and Turkey as well as the people of Iraq will have to bear the brunt of it if we don't get involved. Considering how helpful they were to the American operation I'd say let them have at it. Make no mistake, almost all of these countries wanted to see the US get bogged down and eventually have to pull out with a bloody nose. Now its blowing up there face, let Iran and Hezballah intervene and keep Maliki in power, hes there guy now anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straits Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Just take a look at all the people they execute and needlessly kill There are far bigger perpetrators in that category. And there are no other places like Israel, only Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horza Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I'm confident that the USAF working with Qods Force can prevent the total collapse of the Iraqi state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.