[Book Spoilers] EP410 Discussion

[HokieStone]

Even though I wanted Lady Stoneheart to appear, it wouldn't really made much sense. People have short memories. Did they show when Thoros resurrected Dondarrion to set the stage that it is possible? Wouldn't they have to somewhat resurrect the brotherhood without banners storyline to bring everyone back up to speed?

Agree, but in this sense, they screwed up the whole season. They should've sprinkled a few scenes of the BWB here and there...with Dondarrion progressively getting worse...complaining that he couldn't keep coming back, etc.

[Emperoreddy]

I'm glad Shae put up a fight. Nor am I surprised that she grabbed the dagger preemptively, although I suppose Unsullied fans will be wondering if Tyrion still would have killed her had she not escalated the situation.

How so? D&D would still have required GRRM to omit any mention of Tysha, to leave out Stoneheart, to have Stannis' arrival dealt with in perfunctory fashion, etc. etc. Essentially, they tell him what scenes to write and he writes them. It might have seemed more in-character, due to dialogue tweaks, but the big changes would have remained.

I laughed at Varys taking one look at the Red Keep, being all "On second thought, fuck this shit" and getting on the ship.

Ehh I think it was clear enough that tyrion was going to kill her no matter what. There are ways accidental or self defense kills are shown on TV and it isn't like that. It was a cold strangle and he called it a murder himself. It bothers him but he wanted to do it. It was just done in hot blood where tywin died in cold blood.

[Cat Alayne]

Yeah that's my other HUGE FUCKING RAGE FUELLER

Whether or not Tysha is mentioned or not, it is SO important for Tyrion to say the moonboy line. It's pretty much the cause of the breakdown of Jersei, as well as Tyrion becoming a broken man.

Do they realise what that does to you? To have the one person in the world who you thought loved you betray you like that!

[SerJeremiahLouistark]

I don't usually complain but this episode felt rushed. I really was hoping we would see Stoneheart at the end and if they would have cut Jon burning Ygritte, and completely smoking Jojen, there would have been time. Arya leaving Sandor was a good scene, I don't mind the Tisha angle was left out because that whole Tyrion escape scene was great. I thought they did the Stannis scene well.

Also what was going on when they first find the cave of the 3 eyed crow and the weirwood, and it's all sunny and nice looking then flip camera angle and it's covered in snow almost immediately. Was that just how Bran and Jojen saw it? That was odd to me.

All in all it was a good episode, but the lack of Stoneheart sucks, when time is focused on Jon crying or Jaime and Cersei having sex.

Hopefully Stoneheart will be the intro of E01S05.

[teej6]

Conleth Hill is wonderful as Varys. The scene where he hears the bells and turns back is priceless. One thing D&D said about this Ep is definitely true. The acting was superb.

[Darth Pipes]

Which seems a good change to me. Except Varys ends up looking mighty suspicious of bailing after Tywin died but screw it.

I suspect Varys departure will take any suspicion off of Jaime for letting Tyrion escape. Although I also suspect that like her father when it comes to their twincest, Cersei will have a completely blind spot when it comes to her brother/lovers role in it.

[Tyrek Sand]

I hope GRMM announces a release date for WoW soon just so I can be excited about something coming up in ASoiaF because I am not too excited for next season at the moment

Think about this way: It's better to not be excited about something that's gonna happen a year from now than be so excited you claw your eyes out because you have to wait a year.

[tmug]

Rewatched.

Jojen getting blown away like that seemed so purposeful it is almost comical. Like it's not only that they made him die so gruesomely, they had his sister Meera put him down, then on top of that they had to blow him away like he was in some Michael Bay movie... friggin HBO

I laughed out loud seeing that.

Bran didn't seem too upset. Something tells me Bran is going to start doing some evil sh*t and possibly the Starks aren't all as wholesome Brady Bunch type as we are being made to believe. But that is a whole nother theory...

[finnegan_stark]

Nothing like casual sexism and knee-jerk reactions. Great combination.

OMG, THIS!

[James Arryn]

Mostly very well done.

The least realistic moment was Dany lifting and fastening those huge metal collars. Not doable.

Things I expected: knew they'd need to soften Tyrion's murder of Shae, and they did. Thought they might simplify the Jaime/Tyrion departure, which IMO worked fine.

The interesting thing about the Arya/Sandor finale is that readers can see her cruelty whereas viewers will be able to see her humanity if they want. Also felt they would continue to emphasize the sincerity of Cersei's loves rather than the insincerity shown in the books, but the character works.

Less thrilled with the idea of the Hound/Brienne fight, but the execution was well done and I like the brief example to Arya she represented.

A few things the show might suggest about the books: jojenpaste might not be as far off as I'd hoped, and they definitely clarify the degree to which Tyrion/the Lannisters dance to Varys' tune step by step.

I'd probably be a little underwhelmed with the battle at the wall if I were a huge Stannis fan, but otoh, if I were a huge Stannis fan I'm probably beyond being underwhelmed. As a minor Stannis fan, his slight sublimation to the memory of Ned struck me as a false note, but he looked pretty bad ass riding in, despite the apparent scissors beats paper nature of the battle.

I am sad to see the best actor in the series depart, but Dance went out as he was all along: completely nailing the scene.

[Faint]

Let's process this for a moment: Benioff and Weiss read the epilogue to A Storm of Swords and thought, "You know what? That isn't a very good ending."

[sj4iy]

Dunno if anyone else felt this, but when the skeletons started popping up I got a definite Pirates of the Caribbean vibe. They seemed to move faster than regular wights.

Jason and the Argonauts for me XD

I still liked it, though. Meera killing Jojen was pretty heartbreaking.

[teej6]

Rewatched.

Jojen getting blown away like that seemed so purposeful it is almost comical. Like it's not only that they made him die so gruesomely, they had his sister Meera put him down, then on top of that they had to blow him away like he was in some Michael Bay movie... friggin HBO

I laughed out loud seeing that.

Bran didn't seem too upset. Something tells me Bran is going to start doing some evil sh*t and possibly the Starks aren't all as wholesome Brady Bunch type as we are being made to believe. But that is a whole nother theory...

Howz that? This Ep made clear that BR is on the opposing side of the WW. Unless you want to now say that the WW are good guys how does Bran become evil

[Frosta]

Tyrion had a motive to kill Tywin regardless, whether it was about Tysha or Shae.... or maybe his father's scorn for his entire life and sentencing him to death for a crime he didn't committ. The scenes were a bit rushed but otherwise I don't miss the Tysha storyline. If you think about it, it really doesn't change much in the grand scheme of things. the other lannisters are generally still on the right track as in the books.

Otherwise, a great episode!!!! I was totally pumped when I saw the skeletons attacking outside the cave. I was shocked and sad when they killed Jojen :-/ Bran's storyline is my favoirite and the scenes I was most looking forward to. My only major complaint is how "normal" Bloodraven looked.... no branch through the eyesocket?? Lame. but atleast they kept his dialogue exactly the same... A thousand eyes and one...

Sad they didnt show LS but I can wait til next season. Hoping they'll delve deeper into Dorne, Cercei's walk of shame, Sam/Gilly/Aemon on a boat.... would love if S5 finale is Tyrion meeting/discovering (f)Aegon. And anything with Jon... any Kit screen time makes me happy... hee hee.

[LadyLiz]

Think about this way: It's better to not be excited about something that's gonna happen a year from now than be so excited you claw your eyes out because you have to wait a year.

It is better to just be super super depressed and still unable to talk about one of my favorite plot points with all of my unsullied friends.

[Zman1863]

I am chuckling at D&D putting this episode up for all the awards. Visually this was far from the the best episode this season. The skeleton wights, the children of the forrest played by... regular children, Bloodraven a guy just sitting in a tree- Real great cosmetics work!

Then the writing- is there some award for ditching some of the very best material the source has to offer?

[LadyLiz]

Let's process this for a moment: Benioff and Weiss read the epilogue to A Storm of Swords and thought, "You know what? That isn't a very good ending."

You are amazing and win.

[Tyrek Sand]

It is better to just be super super depressed and still unable to talk about one of my favorite plot points with all of my unsullied friends.

You can talk to me about it. :grouphug:

[Chuck88]

Not exaggerating in the slightest when I say this was my least favourite episode yet. I'd been looking forward to so many of these moments ever since I first finished ASOS and now it's clear that book readers who fell in love with the story GRRM created are now no longer important.

The positives for me were all the stuff at the Wall. I couldn't give a shit about the chant being left out especially when the sequence itself was so well done. The acting from Kit, Ciaran and later Kris Hivju was great and the funeral scenes really moved me. I would say I'm looking forward to everything that happens with Stannis and Jon next year but it's hard to give a shit at this point.

Dany was fine. Glad we finally got a dragon namedrop. I guess three would have been too much info for the casual Khaleesi fans to take in. Aside from the placement of Arya's last scene in the episode, the whole Arya/Hound/Brienne/Pod thing was fine and Rory's performance was excellent.

Bran's segment was looking so good until for some fucking reason Jojen died. It didn't bother me much at the time since the rest of the scene was so interesting and I assumed it meant getting one of the better-known actors off the show, paving the way for some Greyjoys next year. But the rest of the bullshit that happened, or didn't happen in this episode just made it seem all the more redundant.

I have no idea what the Jaime/Cersei/Tywin thing was all about but again, didn't bother me at the time because I was so excited about other events.

The obvious negative is the lack of Lady Stoneheart which was the absolute cherry on top of the cake that was Storm of Swords. And it's a scene that couldn't have been more perfect for the screen so I have no idea why it was left out. But that's not even my main issue.

The escape was diabolical. No Tysha at all apparently, let alone from Jaime who Tyrion leaves with a stellar opinion of, thus completely negating his character arc going forward. The Tywin scene felt extremely rushed and missed out just about every important point from the books. The acting was off-key as well. It felt extremely apathetic as if they didn't believe in the shitty material put before them.

Hard to care about season 5 at all.

[Zombies That Were Promised]

I'm just waiting until GRRM or D&D addresses the LS backlash within the next day or two, as it was addressed last year that ending Mhysa with her resurrection "didn't even cross their minds."