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How would you rate episode 410?

How would you rate episode 410?   1,079 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

    • 1
      60
    • 2
      21
    • 3
      23
    • 4
      27
    • 5
      62
    • 6
      76
    • 7
      122
    • 8
      179
    • 9
      248
    • 10
      259

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1,392 posts in this topic

[spoiler\] No Val, Dalla, Baby, or Stoneheart. I understand the logistical reason the tv story must veer off the book, maybe in the long term the choices will make sense, but I am sad to see these omissions. Perhaps they will turn up next season. [\spoiler]

Also....John snow needs to be with Ghost more often. That needs to be fixed next season.

Laments from book fans like this I understand. I am primarily a book reader and for me the real story is the book version.

However, what I don't undertsand is the incessant whining, wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth from some folks around here about how the show isn't true to the books. What a terrible job D&D are doing - that one strikes me as really funny by the way. Just look at the ratings - and lastly the constant nit-picking about every little detail. I wonder how many shows these people have directed/produced? I'd bet the answer is zero.

If these changes bother you so much why watch the show? Bottom line is that when and if Martin decides to release his next book, you'll still be able to read the story to your heart's content. What the hell difference does it make if the show strays? You can still read the story as GRRM intended it. No one is making you choose one over the other.

Seems like a no brainer to me. . .

Edited by Green Knight

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By the way, speaking of changes that upset people. There are some I like and some I don't. (There is at least one that I hope they make permanent but I won't get into it for the sake of our unsullied friends). Others I wish they had kept.



For example, I didn't like the scene in the kennels with Yara/Asha either. How the hell did they get out of there?!? But I dont let stuff like that ruin my enjoyment of what is basically a great show.



A lot of characters have been tweaked to be either more detestable or more likeable, but I still find Catelyn Stark to be one of the most detestable characters in the story - book or screen version. I welcome anyone who disagrees with me to read the exchange between her and Jon Snow at the begining of the series. The one when Jon visits Bran on his sick bed to say good-bye to him before he leaves for the NW.



There is much more I don't like about her as the story progresses, but that exchange pretty much cemented my dislike for her right from the get-go. I can't stand her. . .


Edited by Green Knight

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I now begin my watch for many years from now, when this show had been forgotten and someone does Martin's books justice with movie adaptation.

You think a two hour movie is going to be closer to the books than a 55 or 56 hour tv adaptation? My poor deluded little Robin. Make the bad men at HBO fly.

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You think a two hour movie is going to be closer to the books than a 55 or 56 hour tv adaptation? My poor deluded little Robin. Make the bad men at HBO fly.

Seriously- a movie adaptation would cut out about 80% of the books. I'm sure people would LOVE that.

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Seriously- a movie adaptation would cut out about 80% of the books. I'm sure people would LOVE that.

Those complaining about D&D should pause and imagine a Michael Bay or Damien Lindelof version of GoT. Shudder.

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Seriously- a movie adaptation would cut out about 80% of the books. I'm sure people would LOVE that.

See i think the only way you can truly cover everything is to make an animated series.

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See i think the only way you can truly cover everything is to make an animated series.

TBH, I think this is the type of story that works best as live-action (and I say this as a lover of animation). It's just too tied to reality to be a viable animated show.

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I love all the comments in this thread directed towards people disappointed with the episode and the show. "Stop watching! D&D are gods that can do no wrong!" Please. This show isn't perfect and it's ridiculous to tell those that are criticizing it that "it's no big deal." It is a big deal because D&D's changes indicate they're no longer intending to adapt the story GRRM is writing. That may not bother some people but it sure as hell bothers me.

Some of us that have been disappointed with this show started out loving it. D&D started out in good faith at the beginning of the series. They made great claims of being faithful to the books while scaling back or changing little things that would have blown up their budget or would have taken too long. And the show mostly matches those claims early on.

As the show has gained popularity, they've invented more and more storylines and changed more and more from the books simply because they can. It's gone out of the realm of "adaptation that's true to GRRM's vision" to fan fiction. D&D are now making changes that seem intended to give book fans the middle finger. They've deliberately changed major storylines and characters in ways that don't even logically flow from what they've written on the show. Characters feel more like props than people reacting to events around them.

Changes are fine and acceptable if they make logical sense. Most of the changes they made this season do not make sense. They go on and on about budget and time constraints and then they devote tons of time to invented plots that go nowhere, spend money on elaborate and ultimately hollow set pieces with lots of CGI in an attempt to cover up the lack of depth in their version of events, and rush the bigger, more interesting moments, and then often drop the ball in completely baffling ways.

If you change the characters and their motivations, you change the story. This show no longer feels like ASOIAF. It feels like ASOIAF fan fiction. It's becoming generic Hollywood fantasy. That's why I'm so disappointed with the show. They may change directions next season and I may fall in love with the show again.

But right now season 4 really left me with a bad taste in my mouth. It wasn't ASOIAF on TV. It was D&D stringing a collection of duels, some plot points, and a ton of nonsense together in a manner that sort of resembles ASOIAF but ultimately falls so short that it doesn't feel like them adapting GRRM's vision.

The season is a mess. The pacing is atrocious. It's far from perfection. And these guys can and have done a lot better in the past. Telling people that are disappointed with the direction D&D have chosen to take the show to "deal with it" or "stop watching" feels like little more than people just not wanting to read valid criticism of the show. Some complaints are nothing more than rants or a list of changes. Acting like everyone that posts something negative is doing that is ridiculous. There are lots of well-reasoned posts that express disappointment without resorting to being rude to others because they happen to have a different set of standards.

Edited by Caerl Targaryen

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I love all the comments in this thread directed towards people disappointed with the episode and the show. "Stop watching! D&D are gods that can do no wrong!" Please. This show isn't perfect and it's ridiculous to tell those that are criticizing it that "it's no big deal." It is a big deal because D&D's changes indicate they're no longer intending to adapt the story GRRM is writing. That may not bother some people but it sure as hell bothers me.

Utter hyperbole. Liking the show ≠ liking every single thing about the show. I can criticize the show without expecting it to be exactly like the books.

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I love all the comments in this thread directed towards people disappointed with the episode and the show. "Stop watching! D&D are gods that can do no wrong!" Please. This show isn't perfect and it's ridiculous to tell those that are criticizing it that "it's no big deal." It is a big deal because D&D's changes indicate they're no longer intending to adapt the story GRRM is writing. That may not bother some people but it sure as hell bothers me.

Some of us that have been disappointed with this show started out loving it. D&D started out in good faith at the beginning of the series. They made great claims of being faithful to the books while scaling back or changing little things that would have blown up their budget or would have taken too long. And the show mostly matches those claims early on.

As the show has gained popularity, they've invented more and more storylines and changed more and more from the books simply because they can. It's gone out of the realm of "adaptation that's true to GRRM's vision" to fan fiction. D&D are now making changes that seem intended to give book fans the middle finger. They've deliberately changed major storylines and characters in ways that don't even logically flow from what they've written on the show. Characters feel more like props than people reacting to events around them.

Changes are fine and acceptable if they make logical sense. Most of the changes they made this season do not make sense. They go on and on about budget and time constraints and then they devote tons of time to invented plots that go nowhere, spend money on elaborate and ultimately hollow set pieces with lots of CGI in an attempt to cover up the lack of depth in their version of events, and rush the bigger, more interesting moments, and then often drop the ball in completely baffling ways.

If you change the characters and their motivations, you change the story. This show no longer feels like ASOIAF. It feels like ASOIAF fan fiction. It's becoming generic Hollywood fantasy. That's why I'm so disappointed with the show. They may change directions next season and I may fall in love with the show again.

But right now season 4 really left me with a bad taste in my mouth. It wasn't ASOIAF on TV. It was D&D stringing a collection of duels, some plot points, and a ton of nonsense together in a manner that sort of resembles ASOIAF but ultimately falls so short that it doesn't feel like them adapting GRRM's vision.

The season is a mess. The pacing is atrocious. It's far from perfection. And these guys can and have done a lot better in the past. Telling people that are disappointed with the direction D&D have chosen to take the show to "deal with it" or "stop watching" feels like little more than people just not wanting to read valid criticism of the show. Some complaints are nothing more than rants or a list of changes. Acting like everyone that posts something negative is doing that is ridiculous. There are lots of well-reasoned posts that express disappointment without resorting to being rude to others because they happen to have a different set of standards.

agree to every point you made.

They started out as perfect adaptation with minor changes that enrichened the story or cut away stuff that wasn't needed, but now they do just baffling stuff.

Especially the budget and time thing you brought up is true. If they have so tiny budgets and no time for the original story, why add Craster's or Dreadfort?

And now the people who are disappointed by DD, and I really loved them before, as they did such a brilliant job, get shits and "deal with it" and all. yeeha.

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I gave in an 8. Highly generous I know, that's because I approached it from a non book reader aspect.

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I just watched Episode 10 last night. I thought it was excellent and give it a (great; now I have to spell out

the indefinite article for it) 9. Highlights:

Stannis meeting Jon. I haven't cared much for show-S; but he was good in this scene. And pretty much

everything in the far north. "And now their watch is ended." (Wow, speech recognition thought "is ended"

was Missandei. I didn't even remember adding her to the dictionary.)

The dragons shrieking plaintively after Daenerys. Although now I'm wondering why so many people in

Meereen seem to speak English, I mean Common Speech, I mean the Common Tongue.

The Hound's last scene

Tyrion perhaps wasn't quite as good as I expected, but still good enough for a 9.

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5. It really seems like most of the writing staff haven't even read the source material. Well produced episode but it just felt so "not right". Hound/Brienne fan fiction really ruined it for me.


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In a way this series is fan fiction, that's approved by GRRM. The problem is anyone with any sense knew this before episode 1 of season 1 was released. I kind of feel sorry for those of you who thought this series was going to stay completely loyal. I've said it before I'll say it again, ASOIAF fans were NEVER the target audience. We were going to be watching anyway. The idea was draw as many new fans in, with stupid love scenes and palatable things for all audiences. Nothing too dramatic has changed. A few lines, and few characters, a few interactions. It's a quality show.

Mitch Hedberg brilliantly said "you can't please all the people all the time and las night all those people were at my show". That's what this board feels like sometimes.

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It's becoming generic Hollywood fantasy.

Indeed? What is generic Hollywood fantasy exactly?

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In a way this series is fan fiction, that's approved by GRRM. The problem is anyone with any sense knew this before episode 1 of season 1 was released. I kind of feel sorry for those of you who thought this series was going to stay completely loyal. I've said it before I'll say it again, ASOIAF fans were NEVER the target audience. We were going to be watching anyway. The idea was draw as many new fans in, with stupid love scenes and palatable things for all audiences. Nothing too dramatic has changed. A few lines, and few characters, a few interactions. It's a quality show.

Mitch Hedberg brilliantly said "you can't please all the people all the time and las night all those people were at my show". That's what this board feels like sometimes.

It's not that they change stuff per se, it is why they change stuff?

What was so wrong with saying Only Cat instead of Your Sister?

This is such a minor thing, why change it? Such an iconic line, that any lover of the series knows, and then two huge fans of the series who have the ability to film that scene...change it?

It's not always the thing that makes people angry, the thing that makes people angry is the "why?"

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It's not that they change stuff per se, it is why they change stuff?

What was so wrong with saying Only Cat instead of Your Sister?

This is such a minor thing, why change it? Such an iconic line, that any lover of the series knows, and then two huge fans of the series who have the ability to film that scene...change it?

It's not always the thing that makes people angry, the thing that makes people angry is the "why?"

Again could this be a change for the viewers and not the readers? Maybe they thought "only cat" would confuse viewers.

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Indeed? What is generic Hollywood fantasy exactly?

Well, obviously, Dungeons and Dragons, or Reign of Fire.

GoT is just like those XD

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Again could this be a change for the viewers and not the readers? Maybe they thought "only cat" would confuse viewers.

No, i don't like this argument. More unsullied are confused as to who Lysa Arryn is but they thoroughly established that with her scenes with Sansa. Everyone knows who Catelyn Stark is.

I agree with everything Caerl Targaryen said. This season was so disappointing, if it was any other series i would stop watching

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No, i don't like this argument. More unsullied are confused as to who Lysa Arryn is but they thoroughly established that with her scenes with Sansa. Everyone knows who Catelyn Stark is.

I agree with everything Caerl Targaryen said. This season was so disappointing, if it was any other series i would stop watching

She was called Cat like 4 times and it was all in season 1. Maybe 1 time in season 2. Like it or not book readers are NOT the target audience.

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