[BOOK & TV SPOILERS] Shae in Tywin's bed

[Angmar]

I don't even get why they cut Tysha out of the story. It's the biggest thing Tywin has done to Tyrion, and since they love so much Tyrion and daddy drama this would have been the perfect time to show it.

Instead it turns the tragic scene of the books into the vapid love story of Shae and Tyrion in the show. I mean, what. And Shae's been written so inconsistently throughout the show...Are we supposed to feel bad for them, sad, relieved?

It's the Jon-Ygritte drama all over again. I don't get how the writers can't manage to write "romance" on their lives.

[dbunting]

Shae wanted to live with Tyrion as man and wife, with his riches. She didn't want to be sent away alone. When Tyrion married Sansa I think Shae started to really see how weak Tyrion was when it came to his father. Then he tried to buy her off.

Once Joffery died and Tyrion is blamed Shae is totally screwed becuase she doesn't have any money and no friends in Kings Landing. She is likely approached by Cersei and or Tywin, offered money to testify. She is resourceful and sees this as a way to help herself since she knows Tyrion is screwed. She likely did some of it out of spite because all Tyrion had to do was leave with her when she asked him to.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

Did they even mention Tysha?

That's my point: nobody did.

[dunkman]

I always thought that part of Tywin's hatred of Tyrion is because his dwarf son was the most like him of all of his children. He had Tywin's brains and when Shae appeared in Tywin's bed it all made sense to me. He and Tyrion also shared some vices and Tywin hated himself for those weaknesses and so he directed that hatred towards Tyrion.

[Conchobar]

Never sat right with me in the books let alone the show that tywin would fuck what he perceived to just be his sons whore.

As long as people did not know, he did not care.

[Melisandre's hair]

Source?

Anyway perhaps GRRM is refering to the poisoned Tywin theory, which has some validity (corpse having a very strange smell....) while the Shae planted theory is just stupid.

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/06/16/game-of-thrones-finale-martin/

''Oh, I think Tywin knew about Shae. He probably figured out she was the same camp-follower that he expressly said “you will not bring that whore to court,” and that Tyrion defied him again and did bring that whore to court. As to precisely what happened here, that’s something I don’t really want to talk about because there’s still aspects of it I haven’t revealed that will be revealed in later books. But the role of Varys in all of this is also something to be considered.''

[WinterisAlwaysComing]

I loved the Tyrion/Shae/Tywin scenes. He strangled her with the gold chain he got her.

They got the intent of the book scene right - Tyrion threatened his father not to say "whore" again. That goes for BOTH women Tyrion loved and Tywin took from him.

I don't know why people expect Tyrion to be pining for Tysha, whom we've never even seen, while dead Shae is in the next room.

In the show, we never heard Tysha's name, but Tyrion told the sad story to Shae and Bronn in Season 1, and in Season 3, Tyrion rages at his father when Tywin orders him to marry Sansa, "I WAS MARRIED BEFORE! REMEMBER??" Tywin shoots back: "Only too well."

I loved how the show handled this. Whether you wanted "wherever whores go" or not, the word "whore" is what sets both book Tyrion and show Tyrion off.

[Sand11751]

This depiction last night made no sense to me. It made sense for book Shae to end up in Tywin's bed; she never cared for Tyrion. TV Shae did; even at the trial, you could tell something from her delivery about how hurt she was, enough to seek revenge. what was the motive for TV Shae? Was she stupid enough to believe she could really get to Tywin, who has always been a fucking hypocrite anyway. I'm mystified as to why she was in Tywin's bed and the fact that she attacks Tyrion just made the whole thing stupid. I had hoped there would have been some exchange between the two before the end, but as with a lot of the Tyrion related scene, it was all too rushed.

[Chilli]

I had the feeling there was something missing between Jamie releasing Tyrion and Tyrion killing Shae in Tywin's room. I was missing a motivation why he did that. I read the books so I know it was caused by what Jamie said, but in the show it was very confusing.

[aFeastForDragons]

Also how did he knew where to go to come up through the floor?

[kacunnin]

Shae's actress did a scene and said that Shae was angry at Tyrion but not for the reasons he thinks. She wasn't upset with Tyrion because he broke up with her/romantic love but because his banishing her forced her back into destitution and being a hooker.

I don't remember anything like that at all. Show-Shae clearly loved Tyrion, and she was broken up when he dumped her (and he said awful things to her, too, to get her to leave -- calling her a whore and telling her he couldn't love a whore, couldn't have children with a whore, etc.). He was sending her away with plenty of gold to live on, so there's no way she would have been "forced back into destitution and being a hooker."

But then last night, she sure seemed like a whore -- and her reaction to seeing Tyrion (she went for the knife right from the start) suggests she never really loved him at all. Bad writing, as I see it. Either she's the scheming little bitch from the books, or she's the hooker with the heart of gold from the show. They can't have it both ways.

[kacunnin]

I loved the Tyrion/Shae/Tywin scenes. He strangled her with the gold chain he got her.

They got the intent of the book scene right - Tyrion threatened his father not to say "whore" again. That goes for BOTH women Tyrion loved and Tywin took from him.

I don't know why people expect Tyrion to be pining for Tysha, whom we've never even seen, while dead Shae is in the next room.

In the show, we never heard Tysha's name, but Tyrion told the sad story to Shae and Bronn in Season 1, and in Season 3, Tyrion rages at his father when Tywin orders him to marry Sansa, "I WAS MARRIED BEFORE! REMEMBER??" Tywin shoots back: "Only too well."

I loved how the show handled this. Whether you wanted "wherever whores go" or not, the word "whore" is what sets both book Tyrion and show Tyrion off.

But in the book, Tyrion knows that Shae is just a whore when he kills her. He has seen the truth about her. The fact that Tysha wasn't a whore is important, because until he learns that he believes the only women who could ever love him would be whores. When he realizes that Tysha was just a girl who truly loved him (and that his father not only destroyed their relationship but had the girl gang-raped in front of Tyrion), it's enough to push him to act against Tywin.

Show-Shae really loved Tyrion -- at least that's how she was written. Scenes were created just to convince us that she loved Tyrion, scenes not in the book. Her behavior in that final scene just made no sense. Why did she call Tywin "My lion"? Why did she go for the knife the second she saw Tyrion?

No, it didn't work. Not at all.

[cxvb]

"As to precisely what happened here, that’s something I don’t really want to talk about because there’s still aspects of it I haven’t revealed that will be revealed in later books. But the role of Varys in all of this is also something to be considered.''

If you can, consider for a moment that this has nothing to do with your pet theorie(s). It might simply refer to the suspicious way in which Varys "lets" Tyrion enter his fathers cambers. That hasn't been adressed directly in the books (e.g. in Tyrions inner monologue) and yet is something lots of readers can agree on as odd. Or it might refer to something else, like why Varys sends Tyrion to Aegon. Other than wishful thinking there is zero reason to believe the comment above is related to Shae or her being in Tywins bed. It might, but then again it might not. it doesn't confirm anything either way, it is _not_ evidence. (Other than evidence for something yet to be adressed in future books.)

[Ruin]

Shae's best scene this whole series.

[Cold Crashing Waves]

People conveniently forget that D&D have been told by GRRM himself how everything plays out, in another words: THEY KNOW MORE THAN YOU. Lose the tinfoil hats.

[Colonel Green]

People conveniently forget that D&D have been told by GRRM himself how everything plays out, in another words: THEY KNOW MORE THAN YOU. Lose the tinfoil hats.

So...what?

[lostinwesteros]

I took it, both in the book as well as in the show, as undoubtedly showing the true nature of Tywin, his hypocrisy and his cruelty in using the whole issue of whores as still another way to threaten and demean Tyrion. Tyrion's discovery of Tywin's utter hypocrisy, as evidenced by his finding Shae in his bed and hearing her murmur "Tywin, my Lion" must have cut him more deeply than anything else in many years (barring, perhaps, in TV series, being told that Tywin has wanted to drown him after he was born). I was surprised to see Shae go for the knife, I don't know why. We book readers are already well acquainted with her betrayals. After Tyrion had choked her to death, I think it was important to show his grief, though for some reason I found the way it was portrayed to be fairly weak.

[Cold Crashing Waves]

So...what?

Read the thread and you might understand what I'm referring to.

[Young Nan]

I hope so. Plus, her being there because of her own free will is so much more interesting to the story, than her being put there by Varys.

That's my other point- aside from the convoluted process that would be involved with planting her, it detracts from the storytelling. Tyrion being just like Tywin, and Tywin being a huge f'ing hypocrite was a really great character dynamic in the books. If Shae was planted, that would be ruined.

I know that the show & books are different animals, so to speak, but sometimes I feel like the show cuts to the chase or eliminates the ambiguity of book scenes, for the sake of simplicity or clarity on screen. So I believe that it may have some relevance to book events, in the sense that they eliminate any questions that weren't spelled out completely in the books when they portray scenes directly from the books (as opposed to their own creative scenes).

[Newstar]

Cersei also throws in a barbed reference to Tysha in Season 2, in reference to Tyrion's whore: "Have you married this one yet?"