Connecting the 3 Dragon Heads - Examining Unique Similarities

[Dire Dragon]

Excellent analysis. I enjoyed reading it and it is in depth, well researched and the highlighting of he weaknesses is helpful..

But, like some previous I have real problems with Tyrion being a Targ. The tragedy of Tywin and Tyrion is so tied into the fact that Tyrion is his son, the son who is most like him. Being a Targ destroys that poetic arc.

Like a previous poster, I am wondering if three heads of the dragon applies to something other than 3 riders.

[pobeb]

Something is missing here.

1. What is the Lightbringer?

2. Who will be AAR?

I think they all represent a facet of AAR, and lightbringer is their combined power.

Wouldn't GRRM find it repetitive to plant 2 secret Targs?

In a story rooted in repitition and parallels of events and characters, I would say no.

to the OP;

I see a problem with the statement "three different family factions" and then choosing Rhaella; Rhaegar; and Joanna to represent these three factions. Rhaegar is Rhaella's son. These two, are not really two different factions. And Joanna has no ties to the Targaryens that we know of...how do you define a "faction"? this seems rather random....

I think you're missing the point. It doesn't matter if Rhaegar is Rhaella's son. The connection is that each hero is the third child of Rhaegar, Joanna, or Rhaella. Those are the factions: Rhaegar's children, Joanna's children, Rhaella's children. I'm not sure how you're misinterpreting this.

Aerys being related to each is a separate connection entirely.

My point is that if you say the three mounts apply to the gentlemen as well (which I understand), then Dany should have ONE mount. But she has three separate mounts. That makes five mounts. Why don't Tyrion and Jon have additional mounts as well? Why not extra treasons? Why don't any of them burn additional fires?

You're not looking at this in the proper context. Dany must ride a mount to bed. This is her role in the triplet, to ride this particular mount. Do the visions see her mounting 3 times? No, the visions show her on her silver, then they show the corpse on the ship (Victarion), then they show the flower in the wall (Jon). Meaning that riding a mount is a metaphor that suggests travel, and bed is certainly a metaphor for marriage (it is in no way literal) - which is apparent in each part of the vision (bride of fire). You shouldn't ask "Why is she riding a mount or traveling 3 times?" but "Where is she riding/traveling to?" Each time she rides a mount (travels) she is going to a suggested groom (bed). She rides her silver (mount) to Drogo (bed), she rides the Iron Victory (mount) to Euron (bed), then rides Drogon (mount) to Jon (bed). Yes, she mounts 3 separate times, but each time fulfills her mount (travel) to bed (marriage) and the subsequent vision of her being a bride. It's a pretty clear connection.

Well for one thing, I do it the other way around. "Slayer of lies" refers to the three fires she'll light, "daughter of death" to the three treasons she'll know. The vision of Viserys shows her his treason for gold, the vision of Rhaego shows her MMD's treason for blood, the vision of Rhaegar whispering Lyanna's name shows her Jon's eventual treason for love. The visions of Stannis/Jon Snow, Aegon, and the third individual (I've seen speculations include Jon Snow, JonCon, Euron...) are harder to parse, but at a guess I'd say Aegon is the fire for death for sure.

Your interpretation of a "treason for gold" absolutely does not fit. Viserys doesn't betray anyone for gold. If you're taking it from the stance that he betrayed Dany by giving her to Drogo, that's a betrayl for power: an army, ships, westeros. If you're looking at it as Viserys betraying Dany and being killed with gold, that doesn't fit either because he never betrays her; he simply makes threats. Also, Dany doesn't betray Viserys FOR gold, if anything she betrays him with gold, but even then that's a tremulous interpretation. She betrays Viserys, certainly, but if anything she betrays him because he's dangerous and was threatening to kill her child.

Rhaego for blood I'll give you, that is definitely a viable interpretation.

However, the last vision, if we're assuming your interpretation, isn't really about Jon. The treason for love that she would know, is the treasonous love (starting a terrible war) between Rhaegar and Lyanna. The "know" would suggest she learns the truth at some point in the future. This is, of course, if we assume your interpretation.

You don't think there's some interplay between needing to light a fire of life and her being the daughter of death?

Also, if Aegon is the fire for death, then that means Stannis or the stone beast is the fire "to love".... Yea.... Starting to see how it falls apart when the pieces don't connect? Everything has to connect, not just one or two pieces - elsewise the theory falls short. And I think I've done a pretty damned good job of connecting my points.

No, I'm not. "Bride of fire" applies to the three men in the visions either way, I've never ignored them. Slayer of lies refers to how the fires she'll light will reveal the truth. Daughter of death refers to how each treason has a fatal cost.

Literally the only difficult part is figuring out what the visions refer to.

Exactly. And it's as difficult as jamming two pieces of a puzzle together that don't connect. Having the "fire you must light" explained in the "Slayer of Lies" vision makes absolutely no sense. If you pair the fires and visions side by side, you'll see how ridiculous it looks:

Stannis - fire for life or fire to love (how do either of these apply?)

Aegon - fire for death (how does this apply)

Stone beast - fire for life or fire to love (how do either of these apply?)

You don't think "treason" and "slayer of LIES" is connected?

Did you completely ignore the connection I made in lighting a "fire for life" seeing a vision of 3 dead dragons, lighting a fire FOR LIFE, and raising 3 new dragons? You don't think there's a parallel there?

[Pengwin7]

Why would they separate Jon & Dany?

Why would they send Dany to the protection of Dragonstone and not Jon?

Why would they take Dany away from her mother?

What killed Rhaella?

Why would GRRM say Jon was born @ a month after the Sack and Dany was @ 8 months after the Sack?

Why pretend that Dany was Rhaegar's sister and not child?

Who took Dany to Dragonstone?

Why wouldn't Lyanna tell Ned to protect Jon, AND FIND MY DAUGHTER?

I have like a 100 more but that will get you started

1. Dany has to leave Westeros because she obviously looks like a Targ.

2. Because she looks like a Targ.

3. Because she looks like a Targ.

4. Rhaella could've committed suicide or been murdered on Dragonstone, for all we know.

5. GRRM's answers are going to be the same as the stories that are conveyed by the characters in the book. Just like if somebody had asked him to verify that all [deceased] characters are actually deceased.

6. If it was decided to represent Dany as Rhaegar's child, then that same somebody would have to tell all the events from ToJ... including identifying the mother.

7. My theory: Oberyn Martell.

8. Maybe she did... "Promise me Ned"... too many of us believe that this is only with regard to Jon Snow. Why not a deeper secret?

*There is a chapter in GoT where the Small Council discusses finding Daenerys and killing her. Which of the small council are so incredibly against it?...

Keep firing away.

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

But, like some previous I have real problems with Tyrion being a Targ. The tragedy of Tywin and Tyrion is so tied into the fact that Tyrion is his son, the son who is most like him. Being a Targ destroys that poetic arc.

It depends what you believe is more important Nature vs Nurture.

If Tyrion was like Tyrion because he was molded that way by Tywin's parenting (good or bad) that could explain why he was who he was.

It somewhat also is addressed in the story with Ned's sons, both Robb and (adopted son) Jon.

Robb marries Jeyne because he has seen what Ned did (both his honor and Ned bringing home a bastard and what being a bastard meant to Jon)

Jon joins the Nights Watch because Ned had a bastard and Jon does not want to make the same mistake and create a bastard himself.

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

1. Dany has to leave Westeros because she obviously looks like a Targ.

2. Because she looks like a Targ.

3. Because she looks like a Targ.

4. Rhaella could've committed suicide or been murdered on Dragonstone, for all we know.

5. GRRM's answers are going to be the same as the stories that are conveyed by the characters in the book. Just like if somebody had asked him to verify that all [deceased] characters are actually deceased.

6. If it was decided to represent Dany as Rhaegar's child, then that same somebody would have to tell all the events from ToJ... including identifying the mother.

7. My theory: Oberyn Martell.

8. Maybe she did... "Promise me Ned"... too many of us believe that this is only with regard to Jon Snow. Why not a deeper secret?

*There is a chapter in GoT where the Small Council discusses finding Daenerys and killing her. Which of the small council are so incredibly against it?...

Keep firing away.

So the plan was to always hide Jon with Ned? Jon didn't look like a Targ so he could stay but Dany looked like a Targ so they couldn't hide her with Ned?

And they went so far as to nickname her after a storm that DIDNT happen when she was NOT born at Dragonstone?

And Oberyn Martell was sleeping with his Sister?

Lyanna was OK with just handing over her newly born Daughter to some strange guy to take to Dragonstone?

And if Viserys remembers life before Essos, why doesn't he remember Dany before his mother died?

[UnmaskedLurker]

Well, you are welcome to disagree... but at least read my post correctly if you are going to counter.

I never claim Daenerys is the child of Rhaegar/Rhaella.

My theory is that Dany/Jon are twins.

If an author doesn't want somebody to guess this grand theory... do you know what they would do... find a "story" that places them in different birth years.

Nobody would give a second thought of them being twins if their "birth stories" place them in different birth years.

But who is a credible witness for Dany's physical birth? (I'm talking about who might have viewed the baby physically coming out of Rhaella's womb.)

Make a list.

I read your post carefully, perhaps you should have read mine more closely. I stated that they could not be twins because they are 8-9 months apart, and therefore they cannot even be from the same mother because Lyanna was dead by 8-9 months after Jon's birth. I then got a little "cheeky" stating that based on the date of birth, Rhaella must be Dany's mother and thus for Rhaegar to be the father (which was the crux of your line of reasoning--that Rhaegar fathered all 3 heads of the dragon), it would be mother-son incest.

But I know you were saying twins. I understood your theory. I am just saying that GRRM would have been more ambiguous than a direct statement that Dany is 8-9 months younger than Jon if they were actually twins. That would be an unambiguous lie--and there is no point in him answering any questions if he is just going to lie. He may play with words or obfuscate. But I don't think he will directly lie by saying 8-9 months younger if they are really twins. So I then went on to speculate who else could have been the parents under those circumstances--not Lyanna (dead at the time of birth) and not Rhaegar (son of the only other person who could have been Dany's mother). I could have just ended with demonstrating why I did not think they were twins, but I also wanted to demonstrate why I did not think Dany was the daughter of Rhaegar with any mother at any time.

[Pengwin7]

So the plan was to always hide Jon with Ned? Jon didn't look like a Targ so he could stay but Dany looked like a Targ so they couldn't hide her with Ned?

And they went so far as to nickname her after a storm that DIDNT happen when she was NOT born at Dragonstone?

And Oberyn Martell was sleeping with his Sister?

Lyanna was OK with just handing over her newly born Daughter to some strange guy to take to Dragonstone?

And if Viserys remembers life before Essos, why doesn't he remember Dany before his mother died?

Yes, Jon can stay in Westeros because he could be posed as a Stark, bastard of Eddard, yes.

I didn't say the storm didn't happen. I'm sure the storm DID happen. If you fabricate a story (Usual Suspects movie), you need to make the story so incredible that nobody would possibly challenge it.

It's not hard to put together pieces to fabricate a story. If there was a huge storm 9-months from a possible date of conception... what a perfect way to call her "Stormborn", but still honour the fact that she is bastard "Storm".

Oberyn Martell is "very close" with his sister.

Pretend GRRM had never told us that Cersei/Jaime were incestuous. Somebody on the forums could postulate that Joff, Tommen, and Myrcella were all from Jaime... and we'd call that person crazy.

Princess-of-Dorne & Joanna arrange a potential cross-marrying of their children. Cross-marrying the incestuous Jaime/Cersei to Elia/Oberyn... hmmm. Consider that.

And apparently Elia Martell's first daughter Rhaenys "looked like a Martell". Consider that.

Oberyn Martell would not be a stranger to Lyanna.

Oberyn was at Tournament at Harrenhal.

Oberyn's mom (Princess of Dorne) was good friends with Joanna Lannister AND Rhaella Targaryen. That's an important dynamic that GRRM writes into the story.

Consider that Rhaegar didn't truly love Elia... but understood that:

i) It is expected he get married

ii) That she loves Oberyn... and he's OK with that.

In that case, Elia would be OK with Rhaegar searching true love... and she'd probably be just fine with him making somebody QoLaB if he finally found somebody to love.

Viserys was 9yrs old when Dany "arrived".

Do you remember being 9?

If somebody tells you that you have a newborn sister... but she is actually 9months... do you really question it?

And Viserys... he's a bastard too.

Product of Rhaella + Ser Bonifer Hasty.

Of course... that's not the story... until it is.

So bastard Vis & bastard Dany make a good pairing.

I don't think we should discuss any more... unless it is a separate thread.

I hijacked this thread and that wasn't right.

I apologize to the OP.

[pobeb]

The thread is being derailed by the paternity of the theorized heroes.

When I wrote this theory, I added the A+J=T dynamic because it added another layer to my series of connections - despite my fear that this derailment would eventually happen.

HOWEVER, you all must realize that the OP theory doesn't just stand on Tyrion being a Targaryen. The theory stands on the many other connections I've drawn from the source material. Tyrion being a descendent of Aerys is just the little cherry on top; the theory tastes just as sweet without it.

I obviously don't mind discussing theory, but please keep it related to supporting or disproving the connections. Thank you.

p.s. Daenerys "Stormborn" interpreted as Daenerys (born as a) Storm (bastard), is a very interesting angle that I never considered. I haven't given it much thought of how it would or wouldn't apply to how I've constructed my theory, but making a hypothetical connection that all heroes are also bastards, is a pretty fun idea to play around with (at the very least).

[UnmaskedLurker]

Excellent analysis. I enjoyed reading it and it is in depth, well researched and the highlighting of he weaknesses is helpful..

But, like some previous I have real problems with Tyrion being a Targ. The tragedy of Tywin and Tyrion is so tied into the fact that Tyrion is his son, the son who is most like him. Being a Targ destroys that poetic arc.

Like a previous poster, I am wondering if three heads of the dragon applies to something other than 3 riders.

Amonra above addresses my response to some extent, but I wanted to expand. The poetic tragedy is that even though Tyrion was not the biological son of Tywin, he was the "real" son of Tywin. Tyrion was much more like Tywin than Tywin's "real" children. As much as Tyrion hated his father, he wanted to be like his father, and largely succeeded. So the irony is that the child that really took after Tywin was not even his real child. More "poetic justice" is that Jaime killed Tyrion's father (Aerys) and Tyrion killed Jaime's father (Tywin).

The idea that Tyrion being a Targ destroys that poetic arc is nonsense to me. Why does Tyrion have to be the natural born son of Tywin for the dynamic to work? Isn't the fact that Tyrion was more like Tywin than his real children irony itself? Isn't the fact that Tywin may have suspected but could not be sure Tyrion was not his add to the complexity of their relationship?

As I wrote in a different thread (that apparently not too many people wanted to discuss because it died pretty quickly), originally, GRRM was going to have the Targs be "fire dancers" (control fire) rather than have dragons. If instead of three dragon riders, we have three fire dancers, they must be Targs. If the dragon has three heads means that the three main characters will be dragon riders (or fire dancers originally) don't they have to have Targ blood. So all the debates about whether non-Targ can ride dragon, certain non-Targs could not have been fire dancers. Who else can the third main character be who would have been able to control fire other than Tyrion?

[Pengwin7]

Unmasked Lurker & Amonra - would you both be OK deleting the posts that were specifically towards my posts...???

I feel really bad about derailing this thread and would like to consider deleting my posts to clean the thread back up.

This is a really, really, really good thread.

All the three related things you mention are super, super good... I've been a big fan of threes throughout my reading.

I totally support so many parts of your OP.

I ruined it... I'm so sorry pobeb. :crying:

[Toth]

The idea that Tyrion being a Targ destroys that poetic arc is nonsense to me. Why does Tyrion have to be the natural born son of Tywin for the dynamic to work? Isn't the fact that Tyrion was more like Tywin than his real children irony itself? Isn't the fact that Tywin may have suspected but could not be sure Tyrion was not his add to the complexity of their relationship?

I completely agree with your statement for I was sceptical to it for a long time as well. But saying Tywin isn't Tyrion's father because they aren't related is like to say Eddard was not Jon's father because R+L=J. It's nonsense. The hint that both are Targs only helps to fullfill the prophecy we are discussing in this thread and we know not enough about Aegon to make the our hints work with him. But even if it is ever going to get revealed (which I personally doubt), then it won't have that much effect on the characters. Jon was raised by Eddard Stark. Eddard was his father. And Tyrion was more or less (more less actually) raised by Tywin, so Tywin is still his father. The only difference is that Tyrion never accursed himself by kinslaying, but he doesn't know that and feels still miserable because of it.

And while I'm at it... I do believe now that Tyrion is the 'slayer of lies' since he killed Tywin for the lie of Tysha being a whore. For me that sounds like something.

[UnmaskedLurker]

Unmasked Lurker & Amonra - would you both be OK deleting the posts that were specifically towards my posts...???

I feel really bad about derailing this thread and would like to consider deleting my posts to clean the thread back up.

I would not mind, but it seems unnecessary. Why don't we just stop talking about it, let the subject drop and leave it as friends? The old posts will just become old history in a longer thread.

[UnmaskedLurker]

I completely agree with your statement for I was sceptical to it for a long time as well. But saying Tywin isn't Tyrion's father because they aren't related is like to say Eddard was not Jon's father because R+L=J. It's nonsense. The hint that both are Targs only helps to fullfill the prophecy we are discussing in this thread and we know not enough about Aegon to make the our hints work with him. But even if it is ever going to get revealed (which I personally doubt), then it won't have that much effect on the characters. Jon was raised by Eddard Stark. Eddard was his father. And Tyrion was more or less (more less actually) raised by Tywin, so Tywin is still his father. The only difference is that Tyrion never accursed himself by kinslaying, but he doesn't know that and feels still miserable because of it.

And while I'm at it... I do believe now that Tyrion is the 'slayer of lies' since he killed Tywin for the lie of Tysha being a whore. For me that sounds like something.

I don't understand why you think it is not ever going to be revealed. I agree that the person who "raised" you is your father. But a lot of who we are also is biological, so a bio father is also relevant--and here, where the bio dad is critical to having the ability to ride a dragon and/or be one of the three heads of the dragon, particularly critical. So if Tyrion is the son of Aerys, then he is the son of Aerys because it is part of fulfilling the prophesy. Any good author makes sure that the elements of any prophesy eventually become know to the relevant characters. Would the story of Oedipus work if Oedipus never finds out that the man he killed was actually his father and the woman he loved was actually his mother? No, the aspects of the prophesy that make it work as a fulfilled prophesy always become known in the end to the main characters.

So to bring this back to the OP, if the rule of 3s really will be followed here--and I think it will--Tyrion likely is a Targ, and it will become known (at least to Tyrion, Dany and Jon) for the significance of the 3 heads of the dragon prophesy to really work.

[The Mother of The Others]

Who else can the third main character be who would have been able to control fire other than Tyrion?

Jon, Aegon, Daenerys. (Jaime, Cersei).

Tyrion was put in charge of the drains. Water. So in the final showdown that dreams say will take place under the Rock, Tyrion would douse the fire of the other "siblings" with a large dose of his flashflood sewer solution.

[pobeb]

To all those putting emphasis on the poetic tie of Tyrion being Tywin's son, I ask this:

How does being Aerys' biological son, make Tyrion any less Tywin's son?

[UnmaskedLurker]

Jon, Aegon, Daenerys. (Jaime, Cersei).

Tyrion was put in charge of the drains. Water. So in the final showdown that dreams say will take place under the Rock, Tyrion would douse the fire of the other "siblings" with a large dose of his flashflood sewer solution.

Aegon is not a main character, he was introduced in book 5. Personally, I think he is fAegon, and he is destined to die in DoD 2.0, long before the final battle. But even if I am wrong about his death, he is not a main character. I don't see how he can be one of the three heads.

While Jaime and Cersei could be seen as main characters, and in theory could be the children of Aerys, consider the other connections. Tyrion is the third child, not Jaime or Cersei. Tyrion is the outsider. Tyrion is the one with white (Targ) hair. Tyrion is the one who's mother died while giving birth (similar to Jon and Dany). The parallels between Jon, Dany and Tyrion just do not apply to the others.

[pobeb]

Unmasked Lurker & Amonra - would you both be OK deleting the posts that were specifically towards my posts...???

I feel really bad about derailing this thread and would like to consider deleting my posts to clean the thread back up.

This is a really, really, really good thread.

All the three related things you mention are super, super good... I've been a big fan of threes throughout my reading.

I totally support so many parts of your OP.

I ruined it... I'm so sorry pobeb. :crying:

You didn't ruin anything. People are free to post whatever ideas they feel, and I completely understand the topic being lost in the heat of discussion. All I'm asking is to be mindful of the OP when posting.

As I said before, I really enjoyed your Daenerys Stormborn = Daenerys Storm interpretation.

[Toth]

Any good author makes sure that the elements of any prophesy eventually become know to the relevant characters. Would the story of Oedipus work if Oedipus never finds out that the man he killed was actually his father and the woman he loved was actually his mother? No, the aspects of the prophesy that make it work as a fulfilled prophesy always become known in the end to the main characters.

So to bring this back to the OP, if the rule of 3s really will be followed here--and I think it will--Tyrion likely is a Targ, and it will become known (at least to Tyrion, Dany and Jon) for the significance of the 3 heads of the dragon prophesy to really work.

Today I had a discussion with another reader who said, that one of GRRMs most remarkable skills is subtlety. Each line of his epic is a logical consequence of previous events, but he ofttimes doesn't need to outright tell us that, so allowing the reader to make his own conclusions. I don't want to rule out that their parenthood could be revealed at some point in the remaining books, but I don't see any fitting opportunity at the moment and don't believe that GRRM ever has to outright reveal anything.

In your Oedipus example the whole drama comes from patricide and incest because the protagonist was cursed by a self-fulfilling prophecy. In ASoIaF the final stage of the prophecy will most likely feature mankinds last struggle against the Long Night. I just ask: Do the three really need to know their relations for the prophecy to kick in? We have Dany who gave birth to the dragons. We have Tyrion who seems to know how to train and saddle them for battle. And we have Jon who knows a foe worth striking for. I really can imagine how their storylines connect and how they stick together and fight without a Howland Reed standing at side shouting "Hey, do you know that the girl is your aunt?"

[The Mother of The Others]

I don't see how Aegon can be one of the three heads.

Tyrion is the one who's mother died while giving birth (similar to Jon and Dany). The parallels between Jon, Dany and Tyrion just do not apply to the others.

Well by virtue of sweeping his way onto the throne Aegon would become one of the top promontories, a Head by default at that point. In the footrace of the Targs, Daenerys is the hare who snoozes in the East and loses out on the West when Aegon the turtle gets there first. (Notice all of the turtle references during the Rhoyne journey). That's all the legitimacy he needs as a character----right of conquest.

I've long seen Jon/Danny/Tyrion as the triplets of fate. Each marked by their birth, set aside by fate for inclusion in the AAR dance (or tournament?) that draws nigh. people are saying it's better for Tyrion to be the secret Targ of the family so he can qualify as Head #3 because we have a "rule" saying the 3 Heads have to come from the Targ bloodline? Sounds familiar. We also have Targs saying only they can be dragonriders. now they're saying only they can be the PtwP and only they can be the 3 heads. What if it's just wishful Targ propaganda and the AA phenomenon just chooses the best candidate(s) without regard for bloodlines?!!! Tyrion's character is better served by being an "honorary" Half-Head (ala Halfman), like a dragon-taming Rodney Dangerfield Head who gets no respect and thus has a chip on his shoulder that builds until he explodes and does his Loki thing. (Remember Loki wasn't really the same blood as Asgard, which is what kept him interesting).

But it works either way. I can see that. Tyrion could be Head 3 AND a Targ, he could be Head 3 and NOT a Targ (because fate don't care, it just taps people for AA jury duty based on its own inscrutable reasons), or Tyrion could be a FAKER Head 3 (a betrayer Daenerys will accept into the fold, a counterfeit Head, a Mummer's Dragon playing the part of obedient dragon-squire so he can steal one when the time is right, and this opens the way for Aegon to be more true---a guy who genuinely wanted the triumvirate to work but got "falsely" accused of having a secret 'Fyre scheme when he didn't even know about it. He may be Blackfyre but not actually one of Danny's 3 betrayers---it's everyone's reaction to the Blackfyre news that will cause half the world to betray Aegon, including Stormy. His name will prevent them from seeing he's swell. Meanwhile Tryion is the one who should be watched closely for a more active betrayal. Eh.

[UnmaskedLurker]

Today I had a discussion with another reader who said, that one of GRRMs most remarkable skills is subtlety. Each line of his epic is a logical consequence of previous events, but he ofttimes doesn't need to outright tell us that, so allowing the reader to make his own conclusions. I don't want to rule out that their parenthood could be revealed at some point in the remaining books, but I don't see any fitting opportunity at the moment and don't believe that GRRM ever has to outright reveal anything.

I thought I read that GRRM directly stated that Jon will find out who his mother is. I might be wrong about that, but I thought I read that in a few places. If he finds out his mother is Lyanna, then he also must find out that his father is Rhaegar. Tyrion obviously has not come up with GRRM because there is no known mystery about his father's identity.