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[Spoilers All (I think? Sure)] Tattered Prince Identity


Blazfemur

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In regards to Gerion Lannister bring the Tattered Prince, because of said timelines, I openly acknowledge i can retire the thought.

I can't acknowledge his death -- I just can't do it. His ex-girl, very well can be that whore from Braavos, the popular one he left behind.

IF HE IS DEAD -- thats well and good. No problems here, we had it coming, he was missing forever.

The fact George gave him a "missing" storyline, and furthermore "searching" for Brightroar, the Lannister's sole ancestral valyrian steel blade, makes me wonder if he's in fact alive somewhere. I will acknowledge the identity of TTP isnt Gerion though. Why even create the character and include him in the stories? You know? or if you WERE to include him for the sake of family expansion, no need to give him ALL that backstory.

I think him being alive is possible but I really doubt he is Tats. It goes back to the assumptions thing I was talking about. We only need to make 2 assumptions for him to be alive. A. He is Alive and faked his own death and B. He has managed to hide it. Much more sound theory. Especially considering the circumstances. He was sailing to Valyria which most would consider suicide after that its just a question of not coming back. A certain death few if any will question.

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Eh I'm 21, I don't quite need to be eloquent yet lol

Is there any info on him other then buying slaves to continue when the men quit? If so, the only real evidence for dead is "he was last seen heading towards valyria". Could have been shipwrecked or had a mutiny and was just stuck somewhere for a while.

You mentioned eliminating the impossibilities, I get you can do it for crime, but for a missing person there is NO way to definitely conclude he is dead. Its not a math problem lol. I don't see how you can prove either or here

Gerion Lannister?

The appendices don't put him as dead, only lost.

"{GERION LANNISTER}, lost at sea".

Even though he's between the "{}"s, that's because he's thought to be dead by his family. Otherwise, if he's alive, that would be a major spoiler.Tyrek doesn't appear between the "{}"s because people is still trying to find him. They gave up on Gerion because he was lost in a place that is almost unable to reach. Or because, as many have theorised, was ordered to be killed by Tywin, a plan that could have failed, and he's not actually making any real effort to locate him. But both times Tyrion thinks about Gerion, he only says he's missing or that he never returned, not that he's dead.

I only ever said I was sure he wasn't Tats not that he wasn't still alive although I think its very unlikely. Him being alive is possible and I never said it wasn't. I just said the text says he's dead and there is no evidence to be found that would lead us to believe otherwise aside from fan theories which aren't evidence which was my whole point to begin with. Thats just a demonstrable fact whether you like it or not.

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Yeah I fully acknowledge he ISNT The Tattered Prince. However i cant believe he's dead, based on the, what was it, 4 times he was mentioned, and the out of the way journey george wrote up for him.


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Yeah I fully acknowledge he ISNT The Tattered Prince. However i cant believe he's dead, based on the, what was it, 4 times he was mentioned, and the out of the way journey george wrote up for him.

That last post was directed to them not you. Man believe what you like. As I said in the beginning just because a theory is implausible doesn't mean its impossible. Maybe my position is stronger than yours based on logical consistency but we're talking about a fantasy series literally anything can happen.

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That last post was directed to them not you. Man believe what you like. As I said in the beginning just because a theory is implausible doesn't mean its impossible. Maybe my position is stronger than yours based on logical consistency but we're talking about a fantasy series literally anything can happen.

exactly. whats funny, is that while this is a fantasy series, we're incorporating so much REALISM based on his writing style, that when soemthing "fantastical" is introduced, it's SUCH a surprise, and we forget that this is, in fact, SUPPOSED to be a fantasy.

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exactly. whats funny, is that while this is a fantasy series, we're incorporating so much REALISM based on his writing style, that when soemthing "fantastical" is introduced, it's SUCH a surprise, and we forget that this is, in fact, SUPPOSED to be a fantasy.

Well GRRM writes things very realistically. I always kind of took that for the point in this series. What if things like magic and monsters actually existed in our world, the terrible place it can be not some happy go lucky fantasy land where no one good dies and evil is always loses in the end.

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Well GRRM writes things very realistically. I always kind of took that for the point in this series. What if things like magic and monsters actually existed in our world, the terrible place it can be not some happy go lucky fantasy land where no one good dies and evil is always loses in the end.

this is why i dont see a happy ending to this series. how could it? inevitably dragons arrive, burn everything to the ground in kings landing. no throne to speak of. kingdoms continue as they were, 7 individual kingdoms.

then, the others arrive. after all the destruction daenerys has just caused, all the bodies strewn about, and corpses everywhere. the arrive. and resurrect everything in sight, including the corpses in blackwater bay, fulfilling patchface's prophecy of marching into the sea and out again.

daenerys' leftover forces, vs the others and all the forces that have died over the years.

now let me ask you, whats left?

thats the ending.

a single white raven (signifying the change of seasons, winter), flies over the death and destruction, the ashes, the ice and snow. it gazes down fromt he skies, with it's red eyes, and bran is beside himself at all he is seeing.

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Gerion was born in 255 according to Westerlands reading, and his bastard daughter was born about 288. So too young to be TTP (Windblown are around 30) and disappeared too recently to be TTP.

I don't recall if the Prince of Pentos must be from forty families. A Westerosi might not be eligible at all, unless someone is descended from a Westerosi who married into one of the Pentoshi families. I might be mixing Pentos up with Volantis, but I think Pentos had the forty families gimmick too.

WB was created around 30 years ago, he was already 23 at the Prince or Pentos deal, and he is described as well over 60. If he went straight to starting WB (which is not the case) he would be born around 247 AC, but if well over 60 is accurate (I don't remember whose impression or statement we get this from), he probably had to be someone born in the 230-240 AC range.

For crackpottery, that is somewhere in the timeframe of Aerion's infant son (not clear when Egg's unnamed third son was born). When was Tytos' brother Jason born (but he was still in Westeros at 9 and seemed to stick around and have a ton of kids)?

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I didn't read this entire thread, I read the first few posts after the op and got semi upset at how much inaccurate information was being posted.



1. Tyrion has not yet met the Tattered Prince



2. Gerrion did not leave Westeros "at least 20 years ago" given that Roberts rebellion happened 15 years ago at the start of the series we can say he left a maximum of 15 years ago, and we actually know more about the time tho I can't remember.



3. You do not have to prove that someone is alive to make a theory about them when it is not proven that they are dead. If you want to disprove the theory put forth, it is on you to prove that he is dead, or disprove it another way, thats how that works, theories are put forth to be proven true or false.


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I didn't read this entire thread, I read the first few posts after the op and got semi upset at how much inaccurate information was being posted.

1. Tyrion has not yet met the Tattered Prince

2. Gerrion did not leave Westeros "at least 20 years ago" given that Roberts rebellion happened 15 years ago at the start of the series we can say he left a maximum of 15 years ago, and we actually know more about the time tho I can't remember.

3. You do not have to prove that someone is alive to make a theory about them when it is not proven that they are dead. If you want to disprove the theory put forth, it is on you to prove that he is dead, or disprove it another way, thats how that works, theories are put forth to be proven true or false.

You know how I know you've never taken a critical thinking class in college or anywhere else for that matter?

Sorry guy but the scientific method says the impetus is on the person asking us to disbelieve what we have no reason to believe is not true. And another thing, no one said he had met Tats only that if he did and Tats was in fact Gerion it would be unlikely that he would recognize him. Also just for the record Gerion left before Robert's Rebellion look it up. If you're going to try to play sheriff bro make sure you have your facts straight. Otherwise you're going to look just as foolish and smug as you do right now.

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  • 1 month later...

I think if he does turn out to be from Westeros, he is likely to be a son of Aerion, given his appearance, than Gerion Lannister.



With that said, I also do not think he was one of the Band of Nine. He most likely was just a soldier in one of the mercenary companies during the war, as he formed his own company after the war.


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Tyrion tells us that Gerion left almost a decade ago in 300AC, Tatters has been in the WB toi long for that.

Gerion was born in 255AC, Tatters is past 60 in 300AC, and thus born in 239AC or before.

The guy was a chosen prince of Pentos, thus born in Pentos, most likely, which seems to rule out Aerions son, who would, by the way, be around 70 now, if he still lived. And Aerions son seems to have lived in Westeros, at least the first few years of his life (Great Council and all).

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But its a question of research methods used to create theories. I'm sure you you've heard of Occam's Razor, the idea that when posed with two competing yet equally predictive hypothesis you should choose the one that requires the fewest assumptions.

And see, that's the thing. You are right in your description of Occam's Razor. But that word "choose" doesn't mean "hold as true", but rather "consider/investigate first". And this makes sense if you are aiming at finding the solution to a problem using the fewest possible assumptions, or to arrive at a conclusion while expending the least amount of time and/or resources. I.e. it is about starting with the hypothesis that is easiest to falsify. It It's an important tool of heuristic pragmatism, no question.

However, all of that, as one might notice, is not really what we are actually doing here in the first place. (Not most of us, anyway.)

Of course, applying Occam's Razor to ASoIaF-theories is not inherently wrong - it can still be a tool to organize information, weigh pros and cons of a hypothesis, or test it for falsifiability. But the scope of our discussion, namely this book series, makes falsifiability nigh-impossible. As a result, it makes little sense to argue against a theory with Occam's Razor, because we literally don't have a result we could arrive on, neither with few assumptions nor with many.

That being said, I don't think he is Gerion either.

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I would say that Tatters Pentoshi accent proves he's Pentoshi.

People can't fake accents consistently. This is also why I believe Daario is Daario- Tyroshi accent.

What?!?!? You mean, they both aren't two more secret Targs?!?

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The Tattered Prince is a Pentoshi, Aerions son Westerosi.

i have a really big crackpot that makes Aegon descendent of Brightflame/Blackfyre, and together with his natural targaryen blood, he IS the dragon with 3 (Targ/Blackfyre/Brightflame) heads.

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