Kingsguards Nights watch ?

[the marsh king]

Did Aegon model the kingsguards from the night watch

there vows are extremely similar (father no children no wife)

The nights watch and the kingsguard are the only ones in the world of ice and fire that have such strict vows.

I also thought with there being 7 kingsguard was aegons original 7 basically highborn hostages from the kingdoms he had conquered .

[Mike Oxlong]

Did Aegon model the kingsguards from the night watch

there vows are extremely similar (father no children no wife)

The nights watch and the kingsguard are the only ones in the world of ice and fire that have such strict vows.

I also thought with there being 7 kingsguard was aegons original 7 basically highborn hostages from the kingdoms he had conquered .

dorne was not conquered, so that wouldn't work

[Vegeta_Greyjoy]

I've often wondered this myself. The 7 Kingsguard probably had to do with the faith of the 7, though. Another interesting contrast to the Nights Watch, who were probably all believers in the Old Gods.

[The Dragon has three heads]

^maybe very early on, but not since the andal invasion

[Aemond's Eye]

dorne was not conquered, so that wouldn't work

The North, The Reach, The Vale, The Stormlands, The Rock, The Iron Isles and The Trident. I've always taken those to be the original seven kingdoms; The Trident wasn't always ruled over by the Ironborn, so I don't see why it couldn't be considered a separate kingdom by Aegon I. The seven kingdoms during the reigns of his predecessors would actually have been nine regions when you add in the crownlands and Dorne.

Actually, the Riverlands swore allegiance to Aegon before he'd completed his conquest of the Ironborn, so I think it works fine.

[Mike Oxlong]

The North, The Reach, The Vale, The Stormlands, The Rock, The Iron Isles and The Trident. I've always taken those to be the original seven kingdoms; The Trident wasn't always ruled over by the Ironborn, so I don't see why it couldn't be considered a separate kingdom by Aegon I. The seven kingdoms during the reigns of his predecessors would actually have been nine regions when you add in the crownlands and Dorne.

Actually, the Riverlands swore allegiance to Aegon before he'd completed his conquest of the Ironborn, so I think it works fine.

you mention kingdoms, not regions.

dorne was a kingdom

[Aemond's Eye]

you mention kingdoms, not regions.

dorne was a kingdom

Actually, The Riverlands were a kingdom before being conquered by both the Stormlands and then later the Iron Isles. The Riverlands swore fealty to Aegon before he'd conquered the Iron Isles - I don't see why Aegon wouldn't have considered it a kingdom conquered. He freed them of the Ironborn, but they weren't automatically subjugated - they swore allegiance as the Lords of the Riverlands.

Aegon I styled himself as King of the Seven Kingdoms, so I'd say he was counting the Trident.

[Mulled Wino]

I don't think so, seem like standard type vows for any lifelong organization

[ruddy the ruin]

I wouldn't say so I think he did copy the nights watch because it has bin going on for so long it must keep most men honest

[Arya Havinfun]

Actually, I think the current vows of both the NW and the KG are based on the Faith Militant aka Warrior’s Sons or “Swords”. The part about no titles no lands and no wives or children appears to be a late addition to the NWoath. The oath used by Sam to open the Black Gate at the Night Fort doesn't include those restrictions, and that gate is OLD, from the time before the Andals came over with their new gods.

The Faith also has many additional celibate orders, such as the Septas & Septons, the Silent Sisters, the Contemplative Brothers (ex: the guys at the Quiet Isle), and the Begging Brothers (ex: Septon Meribald).

Out of all of them, (military and non-military) the ones I think have the strictest vows and the hardest duty are the Silent Sisters. They aren’t allowed to talk, can’t marry, can’t have families, and have to clean up everybody’s corpses. And nobody looks them in the eye, because they’re the “Wives of the Stranger” and therefore have MAJOR cooties.

[Beorn Snow]

Riverlands never were a kingdom.

They were kingdoms.

[Eli Stark]

Did Aegon model the kingsguards from the night watch

there vows are extremely similar (father no children no wife)

The nights watch and the kingsguard are the only ones in the world of ice and fire that have such strict vows.

I also thought with there being 7 kingsguard was aegons original 7 basically highborn hostages from the kingdoms he had conquered .

I doubt he used hostages for his KG. The whole purpose of hostages is the threat that you can kill them at any time if their families act up. So, doesn't make sense to turn around and make those hostages your principal protectors.

On the other hand, Aegon II did add Jaime to the KG to make him a hostage/insult against Tywin Lanister. So, what do I know. Though Jaime (the hostage) did end up killing Aegon II, so it kind of proves my point that it is not wise to make hostages your KG. Aegon II was crazy after all.

Regarding the argument of how many kingdoms there were, seems like a debate of semantics. At one point, the book says there were hundreds of Kingdoms in Westeros. So, at one point every region or fraction of a region was probably a kingdom. So, who knows what Aegon meant by calling himself King of the Seven Kingdoms without having conquered Dorne. The recent kings call themselves ruler of the Roynar even though they don't rule shit in Essos. Those titles are just meant to sound impressive. Don't put too much stock in their meaning.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

The Riverlands and the Iron Islands were one kingdom before the Conquest, ruled by Harren. After his Conquest was done, the Iron Islands were given to House Greyjoy, the Riverlands to House Tully. One kingdom became two regions.

We don't know the exact origins of the KG, only that they were not around before the Conquest, whereas the NW was. So it's possible that the KG vows were modelled after the NW vows, and adjusted only where necessary.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

On the other hand, Aegon II did add Jaime to the KG to make him a hostage/insult against Tywin Lanister. So, what do I know. Though Jaime (the hostage) did end up killing Aegon II, so it kind of proves my point that it is not wise to make hostages your KG. Aegon II was crazy after all.

You mean Aerys II. Aegon II lived from 107AC until 131AC.

[Russellstiltskin]

Did Aegon model the kingsguards from the night watch

there vows are extremely similar (father no children no wife)

The nights watch and the kingsguard are the only ones in the world of ice and fire that have such strict vows.

I also thought with there being 7 kingsguard was aegons original 7 basically highborn hostages from the kingdoms he had conquered .

Dorne came later, so it was six (originally) and the Kingsguard were traditionally the best knights in the realm, regardless of where they came from and more likely took there name from the Seven aspects of the Westerosi religion, I think. And the reason for no wives and no children is clear: so they won't love, according to Aemon, but so they won't want to run off and protect their families, and so they are willing to die in service, which would be harder with a wife and kids at home. The reason for the strict wording is fairly clear as well: they have arguably the two most important jobs in the 7K's: protecting the King and guarding the Wall, or realms of men. It's hard to have the civilization they've had without these two institutions, IMO.

[Russellstiltskin]

Regarding the argument of how many kingdoms there were, seems like a debate of semantics. At one point, the book says there were hundreds of Kingdoms in Westeros. So, at one point every region or fraction of a region was probably a kingdom. So, who knows what Aegon meant by calling himself King of the Seven Kingdoms without having conquered Dorne. The recent kings call themselves ruler of the Roynar even though they don't rule shit in Essos. Those titles are just meant to sound impressive. Don't put too much stock in their meaning.

You aren't insinuating that Tormund Giantsbane isn't the Husband to Bears, are you? Sacrilege! :P

[Maester Feelgood]

For whatever reason The Hedge Knight's trail of 7 comes to mind while debating this, that and of course the 7 Kingdoms. As to which 7 the Kingsguard was modeled after, hopefully the World Book may she'd some light. I'm inclined to go with the 7 gods personally because of the Dorne situation but as GRRM has pointed out there is in fact 8 kingdoms. Subtract Dorne and you get 7 again, so who knows.

GRRM definitely meant for us compare the exalted Kingsguard to the Watch, both fallen low of late. The vows have always been the most simple aspect to me, like a priest their married only to duty. If anything I would say they're both modeled of religious orders more than each other.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

For whatever reason The Hedge Knight's trail of 7 comes to mind while debating this, that and of course the 7 Kingdoms. As to which 7 the Kingsguard was modeled after, hopefully the World Book may she'd some light. I'm inclined to go with the 7 gods personally because of the Dorne situation but as GRRM has pointed out there is in fact 8 kingdoms. Subtract Dorne and you get 7 again, so who knows.

GRRM definitely meant for us compare the exalted Kingsguard to the Watch, both fallen low of late. The vows have always been the most simple aspect to me, like a priest their married only to duty. If anything I would say they're both modeled of religious orders more than each other.

Where did he say this?

[Eli Stark]

You aren't insinuating that Tormund Giantsbane isn't the Husband to Bears, are you? Sacrilege! :P

When it comes to Tormund, it is a completely different story. I'm sure he had a whole harem of bears; not just one. His modest titles simply show what a humble, modest, non-braggart he is.

Definitely one of the best characters in the book.

[Eli Stark]

You mean Aerys II. Aegon II lived from 107AC until 131AC.

Yep, that's what I meant. Point still stands.