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Missing swords from Winterfells crypt


cmclain5

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they were taken by osha, jojen and meera for protection when they were hiding out

they were made of bronze i believe

One of them is described "rusted" or "corroded", so it's more likely they are made of iron or steel.

Furthermore, If memory serves, the swords taken were from statues of some of the more recent Stark Lords of Winterfell, and therefore they are unlikely to be made of bronze.

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Ooo...so now that the iron swords are missing, is there a possibility of some ghost action at winterfell?

Finally somebody picking up on my "the swords are missing comments. I'm not so sure about ghosts in the literal sense, but I have a feeling there are secrets in those crypts. Proceed.

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In an indirect way, the swords going missing DID release a ghost in winterfell.



The reason that Bran and Rickon his in the crypts was a direct result of Theon's actions. Those same actions in turn led to the fall of Winterfell at the end of book 2, allowing Bran and Rickon to leave the crypts, taking the missing swords with them.



Theon's capture, torture and subsequent return to Winterfell as "The Ghost in Winterfell" are thus part of the whole chain of events that included the swrods being removed from the crypts.


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The interesting thing is that the First Men of Westeros never developed iron metallurgy. The Andals came with Iron. It means it can't possibly be a First Men superstition, but a Andal superstition, or a later Northern superstition, from after iron was introduced into the North.

The "superstition" didn't have to be introduced after the Andals, or the iron. The Starks could have very well introduced the superstition themselves (after all, they've been in the North for 8,000 years) or it could be associated with an Old God practice that we know nothing of. I don't think the material of the swords that Bran and company took has anything to do with the origins of the practice.

like Arataniello pointed out, at least one of the swords taken was iron because it was rusted. This probably did come from a more recent ancestor.... it's been a while since I've read AGOT so I can't remember for sure either. We don't see any modern day fighter who wields a sword of bronze, do we? Correct me if I am wrong. I assume that all or most swords, after a certain point, were made of iron or steel. The material that the smith used may be, excuse the pun, immaterial. Critically thinking, I assume that these swords protecting the bodies were perhaps the dead's own sword - if the smith was only making them for the graves, he may have continued to only use bronze for the swords that would only guard the bodies of the dead. Those are just my guesses.

Interestingly, Google tells me that in Celtic mythology, swords "indicate victories won for the purpose of insuring the survival of blood lineage." Hmmm.... I certainly think the fact that the swords are gone indicates that something WILL happen in the crypts. There have been some very interesting theories about that, I read some of them in the Heresy threads. I would very much recommend checking out what they had to say. I can't remember which thread it was, sorry.

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I find it interesting that the Stark Lords/Kings in the crypt are carved in such a hostile posture.



Every Stark crypt has a sword across his lap:



By ancient custom an iron longsword had been laid across the lap of each who had been Lord of Winterfell, to keep the vengeful spirits in their crypts.



and:



“Any man of the Night’s Watch is welcome here at Winterfell for as long as he wishes to stay,” Robb was saying with the voice of Robb the Lord. His sword was across his knees, the steel bare for all the world to see. Even Bran knew what it meant to greet a guest with an unsheathed sword.



Perhaps it is as simple as, "no one is welcome guest in the crypts" :)

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  • 2 weeks later...

The Starks are buried with swords "to keep [thier] ghosts at rest" (CoK, 961). Even though Ned's body is not in the crypt, "his stately granite likeness" is (CoK, 960). As Bram and his friends leave the crypts, where they have been hiding, Meera takes Lord Rickard's sword, Osha takes the sword Mikken made for Ned's tomb, and Bran takes his uncle Brandon's sword. As Bram leaves the crypts, "he turned to give his father one last look, and it seemed to Bran that there was a sadness in Lord Eddard's eyes, as if he didn't want them to go" (CoK, 961).



I can only conclude that the ghosts of Ned, Lord Rickard, and Brandon cannot rest now. In fact, they may be the "ghosts" at Winterfell responsible for the murders during "Arya's wedding." This would be an awesome method for Ned's ghost to seek justice. It would also give him an opportunity to tell Jon about his mother.



The crypts have significance in the story. Several chararacters have visited them and dreamed about them. The missing swords are also mentioned at least twice. Also, it would be ridiculous for the lady at the wedding to ask Theon to view the crypts and remark about the missing swords, if there wasn't some foreshadowing.



Naysayers will note that Ned's body never made it back to Winterfell. His body was returned to Catelyn at Riverrun by the Silent Sisters, and Catelyn told them to return Ned's body to the crypts of Winterfell. However, at the time that Winterfell burns and Bran hides in the crypts, Ned's tomb is still empty. However, a Stark who isn't buried at Winterfell with a sword...is just not going to be able "to rest."


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they were taken by osha, jojen and meera for protection when they were hiding out

they were made of bronze i believe

They were taken by Osha, Meera, and Bran. I believe they were made of steel. "A naked sword hung down her [Osha's] back, one of the last to bear Mikken's mark. He had forged it for Lord Eddard's tomb, to keep his ghost at rest. But with Mikken slain and the ironmen gurading the armory, good steel had been hard to resist..." Osha took Ned's sword, Meera took Lord Rickard's sword, and Bran took his uncle Brandon's sword.

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Also interesting that the crown of Winter was a circlet of swords. They form a chain that cannot be broken.

Iron swords as well

Thanks for that, i was wondering why they would have such a povo form of crown (it does have Rubies in it etc) but it probably all links into the role of Iron

I wonder fi the original crown is under the crypts (Robbs was a near replica)

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