Friendly Thenn Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Just re reading ADWD and in one of Tyrions chapters on the Rhoyne it mentions he was made to write down everything he knows about dragons. He then goes on to think about books which would be helpful, including one called Blood and Fire, or The Death of the Dragons. The only known copy of this book, or at least parts of it, are locked away in the Citadel. We know that Jaquen tricks Pate into getting him the black iron key (belonging to the Ravenry Archmaester, hence the black iron) which opens every door in the Citadel. We also know that the Faceless Men were originally slaves in Valyria (from the story the Kindly Man tells Arya) and as a result they hate dragons. My guess is they want the book after discovering Daenerys dragons and want to know how to kill them. Either their order never knew, or they have forgotten. My question is, if the Faceless Men and the Maesters want the same thing (zero dragons) then why are the Faceless men killing and stealing from the Citadel? Unless the Citadels hatred of magic extends to a certain guild of magical assassins ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osha13 Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 To find out how to kill dragons. In one of Tyrion's chapters in ADWD, it references a book called "how to kill a dragon" which is in a vault beneath the citadel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 I have a theory. I think someone in Braavos, possibly the next Sealord, contracted the FM to kill Dany's dragons. The FM are trained to kill humans not dragons, so Jaqen is going to the Citadel to get Death of Dragons from the vaults, which is why he needed the skeleton key. He needs info from the book to learn how to kill the dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 I found odder that Pate died. Only for his face? Or he actually asked for a death? Honestly, don't remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasta11 Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 I found odder that Pate died. Only for his face? Or he actually asked for a death? Honestly, don't remember. Well, he's a a face and a witness both. Taking his face allows for free roaming in the Citadel to a degree, and killing him ensures he doesn't get second thoughts and speaks of the theft afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Pigeon Pie Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 I think if the FM were in cahoots with the Citadel, the maesters would freely hand over their copy of the book. Or it would have been given as part of the arrangement. No need for killing innocent pig boys to gain access where it should be given to him.Therefore I believe that some other party is behind Jaqens latest ventures. Who it is remains a mystery. Fire Eater may be on to something with a braavosi, or it could even be from one of the long black tentacles that seem to be fixated on dragons... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 We have at least (!) two Jaqen-related mysteries. What is he doing in Oldtown, but also what did he do in King's Landing? Now if you look at those two together, the answer becomes obvious: he's the first tourist to have evolved on Planetos, basically a darker and edgier Twoflower. And here's some true nightmare fuel: try to imagine his Luggage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowLiberal Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 The answer to this could be in the fact that Jaquen is still in Oldtown disguised as Pate when Sam arrives. Whatever Jaquen is there for, he doesn't seem to have done it yet, otherwise he'd be gone by the time Sam arrives. So if Jaquen needed to simply steal something, why hasn't he taken it and left already? Perhaps, along the lines of it involving Daenery's Dragons, he's simply waiting for Daenery's dragons to arrive in Westeros, or Oldtown? Or waiting for someone else to arrive there. At the same time though, the Maesters are apparently rumored to have killed the last dragons in Westeros. And we've had strong hints from others that the Maesters are very anti-Targ, anti-dragons and anti-magic in general. So perhaps Jaquen is there for the opposite reason, to undermine the Maester's attempts at killing the 3 dragons when they arrive. That would imply that Illyrio Mopatis hired him, to help the Targ's seize the Iron Throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agamemnon Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 I think Jaquen has gone rogue and sees himself as a warrior of God if you will, he wants to be in the big places when things are happening so he can observe/influence events to his liking. I cant see a conventional member of the FM being imprisoned with no clear method of escape, unless he was trying to get to the Wall the whole time and if so, why isnt he there now? He is either a castout or a runaway just stumbling through life, his talk to Arya of the Red God make me think he no longer believes the Him of Many Faces dogma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 The answer to this could be in the fact that Jaquen is still in Oldtown disguised as Pate when Sam arrives. Whatever Jaquen is there for, he doesn't seem to have done it yet, otherwise he'd be gone by the time Sam arrives. So if Jaquen needed to simply steal something, why hasn't he taken it and left already? Perhaps, along the lines of it involving Daenery's Dragons, he's simply waiting for Daenery's dragons to arrive in Westeros, or Oldtown? Or waiting for someone else to arrive there. At the same time though, the Maesters are apparently rumored to have killed the last dragons in Westeros. And we've had strong hints from others that the Maesters are very anti-Targ, anti-dragons and anti-magic in general. So perhaps Jaquen is there for the opposite reason, to undermine the Maester's attempts at killing the 3 dragons when they arrive. That would imply that Illyrio Mopatis hired him, to help the Targ's seize the Iron Throne. Who else was on the boat? Jaquen was headed to the wall presumably because he wanted to be, Who was at the wall and then enroute to the Citadel that would have been important enough to hire a FM to kill? Who had the money to hire a faceless man and reason to do so? illyrio has spent considerable time and effort to become Dany's family.... her only living family was at the wall and then in old town. Jaquen set out to kill Aemon but got delayed. He got another mission enroute kill Balon. By the time he got back on track Aemon was enroute to the citadel. Jaquen shows up at the citadel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Jaquen set out to kill Aemon but got delayed. He got another mission enroute kill Balon. By the time he got back on track Aemon was enroute to the citadel. Jaquen shows up at the citadel. that's a very good catch. And sounds quite probable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 I think if the FM were in cahoots with the Citadel, the maesters would freely hand over their copy of the book. Or it would have been given as part of the arrangement. No need for killing innocent pig boys to gain access where it should be given to him.Therefore I believe that some other party is behind Jaqens latest ventures. Who it is remains a mystery. Fire Eater may be on to something with a braavosi, or it could even be from one of the long black tentacles that seem to be fixated on dragons...It could also possibly been the Yunkai'i or one of their allies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagleheart Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 He's there to steal the Horn of Joramun from Samwell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 He's there to steal the Horn of Joramun from Samwell Why would he want that? He would have no way of knowing what that horn actually is, especially since Sam doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Greg of House House Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I find the idea that the only way to know how to kill dragons is a book locked in the Citadel kind of silly. But it's the strongest theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoip Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the Alchemist already in Oldtown even before Jon considered sending Aemon or Sam away? I don't believe any Aemon/Sam killing plot. The FM undermining the maesters sounds more plausible. The FM history coupled with seeing Dany as a champion/liberator of slaves could be a motivation. And there are the theories of their involvement in the Doom, which makes me wonder if they have a secret agenda altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HouseHarrison Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 The Faceless Men destroyed Old Valyria (likely causing the volcanic eruptions through a spell) and are alarmed by the rise of Dany and her dragons. They seek to kill her dragons to ensure Valyria will never rise again. There's something in Oldtown connected to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 To find out how to kill dragons. In one of Tyrion's chapters in ADWD, it references a book called "how to kill a dragon" which is in a vault beneath the citadel. so the alchemist buys a key to steal a book? to be exact the alchemist waits days to buy a key to steal a book. and he wants to steal the book because he wants to kill dragons...because.. there were dragons in valyria and that is where the fm started out Pate thought the alchemist wanted to steal something... he never considered that he could just as easily steal the key. Pate thought working for the arch maester in charge of ravens would get him his link for... he never considered the arch maester needed a babysitter and was not giving out anything Pate wants a gold dragon to buy a hooker and run off with her...and go through life as a hedge maester without a link... he doesnt even think that the price is for her virginity but not her purchase price. it is pretty safe to assume that if pate thought so... it is not right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victarion Chainbreaker Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 He was at the Citadel all through AFFC with Pate's face and a master key. That's plenty of time to accomplish his mission. The only reason he was still there at the end of AFFC is that he was waiting for something, and I have no doubt that that something was on the Cinnamon Wind. The horn and the books are the obvious candidates, but he could also be after the King's blood in Aemon Targaryen and Aemon Steelsong. Imagine what havoc he could wreck with Maester Aemon's face and memories!Personally I believe he's after the horn because he wants to bring down the Wall and give the 'gift' to all Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 The Faceless Men destroyed Old Valyria (likely causing the volcanic eruptions through a spell) and are alarmed by the rise of Dany and her dragons. They seek to kill her dragons to ensure Valyria will never rise again. There's something in Oldtown connected to that. the faceless men also missed the targs and their 5 dragons on dragonstone they just let that one slide.for a few hundred years and 16 dragons. Targs had dragons in westeros for a pretty long time with no faceless men worrying about the rise of valyria... the closest thing to old valyria is slavers bay not westeros. The dragons and dany have done more to damage the slave trade than the faceless men did since the doom. maybe this is off the wall... but jaquen is in oldtown to kill somebody.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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