Joffrey was NOT worse than Aerys

[HexMachina]

You answered your own question, who knows? No one because it didn't happen. Leaving us only to compare their stats. I feel like Joff is being overrated here simply because we saw him on screen.

You are also exagerating Aerys though. We know little of his early reign, yet immediately you assume it was bad, or good only because of Tywin. We dont know enough to make that claim. In fact, choosing Tywin as hand shows thqt Aerys had the potential for a good ruler. A good King needs competent advisors, and Tywin had shown himself as more than competent when he crushed the Reynes and Tarbecks. I agree he was awful in his later years, but his early reign could have been very promising. You seem determined that this isnt the case

[Ygritte]

You are also exagerating Aerys though. We know little of his early reign, yet immediately you assume it was bad, or good only because of Tywin. We dont know enough to make that claim. In fact, choosing Tywin as hand shows thqt Aerys had the potential for a good ruler. A good King needs competent advisors, and Tywin had shown himself as more than competent when he crushed the Reynes and Tarbecks. I agree he was awful in his later years, but his early reign could have been very promising. You seem determined that this isnt the case

At one point Arya runs into an old man who reminisces about how much better things were under King Aerys. I have this guess that, for most people who lived outside King's Landing and outside the social circles of the nobility, they didn't even necessarily know he was nuts at any point. The realm was relatively peaceful compared to the time being depicted in the books, and most of the awful stuff was happening where the smallfolk couldn't see it. And of course nobody but Jaime and the pyromancers knew what he planned for King's Landing. So I think Tywin was probably administering the realm competently and Aerys was self-destructing behind closed doors--and mostly late in his reign, too.

[The Wolves]

Also, Joffrey, like Aerys, are products of incest.

Was Aerys? I thought his father married for love so his mother probably wasn't a Targaryen.

[Ygritte]

Was Aerys? I thought his father married for love so his mother probably wasn't a Targaryen.

There was incest all throughout the family tree, though.

[Trigger Warning]

Joffrey died a bit earlier than Aerys.

[The King Of Cooked Steak]

It's true that Joff was not a worse king than Aerys. The argument is that Joffrey would've been a worse king than Aerys, had he lived longer. Imagine a 40-year old Joffrey as king. Things would've certainly gone belligerent very quickly (not that it didn't already). He would be in full control and nobody would be able to doubt him or stop him. Cersei and Tywin would possibly be dead at that time, same as Jaime. Once he came into full power he would murder Tyrion without a second thought. At least Aerys listened to Pycelle's counsel because he thought he was wiser. Joffrey wouldn't listen to anyone, and would've turned the world upside down. Not even his wife, who was seemingly able to mildly control him.

Nevertheless, even if he did come into full power, he would be killed pretty quickly as he is too stupid to actually make any smart political decisions, and somebody like Stannis would take him down pretty easily.

[Aemond's Eye]

From what Barristan said, Viserys had the potential of becoming as bad as Aerys, and he was born a year before the Defiance, so he trully didn't knew Aerys as he was pre Duskendale.

Also Rhaella was doing her best to protect Viserys from his father's paranoia. Still this doesn't mean that Viserys was a nice child. He probably did something, before RR that discouraged Barristan from serving him.

On the other hand, in regards to the Targaryen madness, Barristan appears to be convinced.

Even Jaeherys, Aerys' father believed that his family had a taint.

Which is quite interesting, especially in regards to Aerys' children.

Viserys found himself in a desperate situation, which appears to have brough in surface all his negative traits.

He appears to lack Rhaegar's skills and he also seems to show contempt and disregard for others.

Ser Willem was wise not to tell Viserys about the marriage pact with Arianne, but as wise and noble Willem was, he didn't manage to be able to control or even trust Viserys.

Arya in COK, found herself in a similar position as Viserys was, and she did manage to survive without becoming mad.

If Rhaegar had found himself in the same situation as Viserys, would he have done the same?

We are told that Rhaegar as a child was different and special, in contrast to Viserys.

When someone compares Dany to Rhaegar, it is a compliment.

At times Dany's entire arc seems to be a struggle between the two sides of the targaryen coin.

The striking different attitudes between siblings is something that we see in other families as well.

Joffrey and Tommen, Domeric and Ramsay are good examples.

The Targaryen madness while it seems to be a way to criticize the Royal Family, it is also based on rather disturbing events.

It just seems odd that even though there are other powerful families in Westeros and Essos, the Targaryens are the ones who are expected to be mad.

Ned mentions that his ancestors were hard and cold, Lysa Arryn was a weak woman who after going through a horrible expereince, went mad, in the WOIAF book it is mentioned that

Spoiler

there was a Tyrion Lannister King of the Rock, who loved to torture women.

More or less we have cases of cruel monarchs and powerful individuals who were mad, but only the Targaryens are expected to inherit madness.

Euron, Aeron and Balon Greyjoy are called mad as well.

Theon Greyjoy appears to be mad, after enduring Ramsay's torture.

Lady Danelle Lothston was called Mad.

Gared was half mad after surviving the fight against the Others.

I guess you could call Arys mad for attacking Areo Hotah and Loras for killing the knights who protected Renly.

In Dorne they say about the Ullers that

Malora Hightower is called the Mad Maid.

Lots of other people are called mad, although in some cases this seems to be a derogatory term, as in the case of Danelle and Malora.

The Greyjoy madness appears to be linked to their overjealous attempts for glory and independence.

Gared, Theon and Lysa went though horrible situations, which altered them entirely.

I dont't know whether the Targaryen madness actually exists or it is GRRM saying that power corrupts or as Joker said,

On the other hand, the Targaryens appear to have dragon dreams and in the past they had formed bonds with actual dragons, and I guess this might make them prone to madness.

I agree and disagree. There was a genetic pre disposition (the madness?) which was triggered later on. Because like I said, being kidnapped wouldn't suddenly turn a normal person into someone who has a sexual fetish for fire and torture. Still not excusable though.

I think Martin has avoided the cliché of describing any of the mad Targaryens as just plain lunatics, and their mental illnesses somewhat reflect how they would manifest in the real world. They seem to be partly brought on by traumatic events, but those that descend into it likely have some genetic predisposition to it. The characters are in that regard written as real people - even someone who commits horrible acts such as Aerys.

I'm manic depressive, so I tend to find understanding what makes other people somewhat mad interesting. Especially in ASOIAF, as I actually like Daenerys, but do wonder whether she's willing to pay any heid to the history of her family yet - as I think she herself could end up a bit bonkers if she doesn't.

[Dany Girl]

I think Aerys was objectively a worse king than Joffery because he had more time to do bad things. Aerys started out a reasonably good king, chose a good hand, and the realm was at peace. The Dukesdale happened, and he "broke". I believe Aerys suffered from server PTSD coupled with some other psychological disorder, most likely a paranoia related disorder. I don't think he showed signs of being insane before his mental break though. People often overlook exactly how bad PTSD can be. Having PTSD, being paranoid, and having as much power as he had was asking for trouble.

Joff on the other hand is only like 14/15 and shows signs of sociopathy or psychopathic tendencies, he's cruel and enjoys hurting people. He's overly entitled even considering his position in life. Joffery did some truly heinous acts in the amount of time he ruled. It's not a wild assumption to say that with time he'd be worse. As it stood, Joff was reigned in by his mother, uncle, and grandfather. But once he turned 16 he'd be king in his own right and no one could legally stop him. He could have his whole family put to death for treason if they attempted to stop him. He likely wouldn't do that to his mom, but Tyrion or Tywin would not be so lucky. We see the person Joff was and the road he was heading down, it's fair to say it wouldn't suddenly get better.

So, yes, Aerys was worse than Joff, but only because Joff was killed before being able to reach the pinnacle of his reign of terror.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Well, he could have proven you wrong, OP. Luckily, he didn't.

[Hodor's Dragon]

It's very clear in the books (maybe even more so in the TV show) that Joffrey is feeling his way along and learning the "craft" of being evil. He has no teacher, you know. It's a delight to him when he figures out a new way to torment people, and he catalogues it away. Somebody above called him stupid. He may be stupid (or rather, naive) about some things, but he's pretty clever about tormenting people (i.e., the dwarf skit at his wedding) and clearly picking up new tricks all the time.

I doubt Aerys had accomplished a fraction of as much at age 14. Joffrey was getting ready to set the standard when poison struck down the most noble child the gods ever made.

[HexMachina]

I doubt Aerys had accomplished a fraction of as much at age 14. Joffrey was getting ready to set the standard when poison struck down the most noble child the gods ever made.

It seems that (WOIAF Spoilers)

Aerys was busy being a squire in his youth. Hardly the monster Joff was

[Aemond's Eye]

It's very clear in the books (maybe even more so in the TV show) that Joffrey is feeling his way along and learning the "craft" of being evil. He has no teacher, you know. It's a delight to him when he figures out a new way to torment people, and he catalogues it away. Somebody above called him stupid. He may be stupid (or rather, naive) about some things, but he's pretty clever about tormenting people (i.e., the dwarf skit at his wedding) and clearly picking up new tricks all the time.

I doubt Aerys had accomplished a fraction of as much at age 14. Joffrey was getting ready to set the standard when poison struck down the most noble child the gods ever made.

That was Littlefinger's idea. He knew Joffrey would use it to belittle Tyrion, and that Tyrion wouldn't play along - making Tyrion look more like a suspect in Joffrey's death. I'm not sure there's any sign in there that Joffrey was smart.

[Light a wight tonight]

It's hard to compare the two, because for one thing Aerys at Joff's age was pretty normal, and only later became mad. I'd say that Aerys was mad and did bad things due to madness, where Joff was simply evil, and had he lived would have surpassed Aerys's total of bad deeds.

[Hodor's Dragon]

That was Littlefinger's idea. He knew Joffrey would use it to belittle Tyrion, and that Tyrion wouldn't play along - making Tyrion look more like a suspect in Joffrey's death. I'm not sure there's any sign in there that Joffrey was smart.

I had no idea Littlefinger was behind the skit. Is that in the books somewhere?

If Tyrion finds out about that, he will pay some Lannister debts on Littlefinger, you can bet your buppis on that.

[HexMachina]

I had no idea Littlefinger was behind the skit. Is that in the books somewhere?

If Tyrion finds out about that, he will pay some Lannister debts on Littlefinger, you can bet your buppis on that.

Sansa's escape i think its in. penny also mention to Tyrion that Oswald (LFs man) hired them, though there seems to.be confusion as to whether this was in Pentos or Braavos

[stateofdissipation]

Okay i have seen a few people on here and on other websites comment saying that they think Joffrey is worse than Aerys was...Well i personally believe that is ludicrous.

Joffreys track record

- Attempted to kill Bran

- Killed Ned Stark (mostly under LF's influence)

- Beat Sansa here and there

- Killed peasants with Crossbows

- Abused whores (Not sure if this is book cannon, memory is foggy)

Okay yeah, Joffrey clearly is a horrible person, but...

Aerys Track record

- Raped and abused his wife

- Cut out Ilyn Paynes toungue

- Burned people frequently and ejaculated from it

- Burned Rickard Stark alive and caused Brandon to choke to death watching on a torture device (seriously this is disgusting)

- Attempted to commit democide on half a million people with wildfire

I'm sure i left a few out for both of them but yeah as you can see i don't personally see any comparison on who was more vile. I mean yeah some will say 'Oh but Aerys started out promising'. My reply to that is so what? Him being 'nice' once doesn't suddenly erase or justify his atrocities committed later on.

Treatment of women.

As in the books joff was pretty much presexual it is hard to compare. But Joff was pretty messed up to Sansa.

Treatment of enemies

Joff had Ned beheaded for calling him an incest baby (as king he is responsible it doesnt matter what somebody told him to do)

Aerys burned and strangled his enemies for threatening the life of his son. (it tdoesn't matter if we think they were right to do so. He was justified to defend his son)

The actions of both caused popular uprisings-- Robert and Robb's

Both relished the destruction of their enemies.

Sorry Joff was worse though they wanted to depose him, he was not in immediate danger.

Treatment of subjects

Aerys had payne's tongue removed for saying Tywin was the real king

Joff gave the singer the choice of his hands or his tongue for singing a song insulting to Robert

Joff ordered the death of subjects for throwing shit at him

aerys was prepared to destroy his subjects along with the invading army

As again there was no threat to joff he was worse. Plus Aerys never had a mob of his own people try to kill him during the rebellion,

How mad was Aerys?

He ordered the deaths of the starks and baratheons.. the houses that defeated him.

The starks had an arranged marriage between lyanna and robert, what was the end to that if not the overthrow of the Targs. There was also the Tully and Stark marriage pending. His big mistake was assuming that he still held sway in the vale.

[Kaguya]

Treatment of women.

As in the books joff was pretty much presexual it is hard to compare. But Joff was pretty messed up to Sansa.

Treatment of enemies

Joff had Ned beheaded for calling him an incest baby (as king he is responsible it doesnt matter what somebody told him to do)

Aerys burned and strangled his enemies for threatening the life of his son. (it tdoesn't matter if we think they were right to do so. He was justified to defend his son)

The actions of both caused popular uprisings-- Robert and Robb's

Both relished the destruction of their enemies.

Sorry Joff was worse though they wanted to depose him, he was not in immediate danger.

Treatment of subjects

Aerys had payne's tongue removed for saying Tywin was the real king

Joff gave the singer the choice of his hands or his tongue for singing a song insulting to Robert

Joff ordered the death of subjects for throwing shit at him

aerys was prepared to destroy his subjects along with the invading army

As again there was no threat to joff he was worse. Plus Aerys never had a mob of his own people try to kill him during the rebellion,

How mad was Aerys?

He ordered the deaths of the starks and baratheons.. the houses that defeated him.

The starks had an arranged marriage between lyanna and robert, what was the end to that if not the overthrow of the Targs. There was also the Tully and Stark marriage pending. His big mistake was assuming that he still held sway in the vale.

Rickard wasn't the only person that Aerys burnt

[I swear by Ice and Fire]

Yes by comparison what they actually did and tried to do during their reign Aerys is clearly worse. However hadnt Jofferey died who knows what he would have done once he could rule in his own name.

[Kaguya]

Yes by comparison what they actually did and tried to do during their reign Aerys is clearly worse.

Yes, thankyou.

[Ser Pounce FTW]

No, but he was still young. Given time he seems to have been on track to out do Aerys.