Hotpie Targaryen Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 ...The Rouge Prince...I LOLed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aemond's Eye Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 What about Lady Nym? She'll likely feature a bit more in Winds if she's taking Oberyn's place in the small council, and it's possible she's homosexual or bisexual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Ok, how many really homosexual characters we have in the books? Renly: Handsome funny and charismatic leader.Loras: Strong capable warrior with a great reputation.Oberyn: Dangerous smart man, loving father, very respected and loved in Dorne.Connington: Smart loyal warrior.Nymeria Sand (maybe?): Lethal smart woman. And that's only those confirmed. I think ASOIAF definitely have good represented gay characters than many other books who have either none or are walking clichés. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game Of Thrones Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 A list of major gay characters:- Renly- Loras- JonCon- Satin A list of major lesbian characters:-......... A list of major bi characters:-Oberyn-Dany(?)-Cersei(?) Feel free to add more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krystalis Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Might be. But ASoIaF per se is not big on sexuality. Introducing characters whose only purpose is to play the token LGBT of choice... not good. Neither for the books nor for LGBT themselves. Yes, but there might already be characters who are homosexuals/bisexuals. Should we just go around pretending HBO fucked up another aspect of the books just to please the LGBT community? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northernmonkey Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I'm against introducing token gay/lesbian characters just for the hell of it, but it would be nice to see an explicit man on man sex scene to balance out all the heterosexual ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sleeper Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Because representation is important? You know it's nice for LGBT people to read stories that aren't chock full of heterosexual characters. It helps enrich the experience for some if there is actual representation of their sexualities. Is it? And to what extent? With such a vast cast of characters, Martin would need to populate his world all kinds of characters up to and including of various sexual orientation in a manner congruent to the setting he has established. Sexuality and how it is dealt with by the characters in their social context is also part of the make up of the world. I also understand identifying with certain characters serves as a point of attachment for the reader to immerse themselves in the story. But ultimately, it is the characters fears, desires, longings etc that serve to empathize with them rather that their gender or sexual orientation. For instance, it Loras's grief that brought him out of the page, rather than the fact that his lover happened to be a man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonifer Tasty Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I'm against introducing token gay/lesbian characters just for the hell of it, but it would be nice to see an explicit man on man sex scene to balance out all the heterosexual ones. It wouldn't be token, it would hold to realism. There are over 2500 named characters in the whole Ice and Fire canon texts, with perhaps 250 of them being fleshed out well enough to know something about their sexuality. 12 characters with developed, explicit, non-heterosexual sexualities would be a modest realistic concession (5%). There are only 4-6, and all of those with ambiguous, veiled, or undeveloped sexualities. Martin could do better. Having said that, even though the HBO show savors more explicit depictions of sexuality, I think they do it in such a ham-handed, shallow way. Martin would do it much better - making that a second reason (beyond mere realism) why he should do better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWitch Posted July 2, 2014 Author Share Posted July 2, 2014 I think a few of you have read the thread wrong. I'm not criticising Martin at all. I was actually over joyed to find a fantasy series where homosexuality was taken very seriously. However, it would still be cool as I said to have a lesbian character, and maybe a gay pov. I also find the idea that too add more gays would make them token gays instantly a little rude.martin can add loads of gays and I would be assured that will all be wonderfully characterised. Their are a lot of gay people in the world, as their should be in westeros :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Yes, but there might already be characters who are homosexuals/bisexuals. Should we just go around pretending HBO fucked up another aspect of the books just to please the LGBT community? HBO definitely fucked up Loras and Oberyn with their "all gays are sex machines" attitude. It's not about how "gays behave" because there is no norm, it's about how characters behave: Loras is done with love after Renly's death and we see Jaime respect t hat, despite all the jokes. In show, Loras went out to look comfort in some random man and even spilt the beans about Sansa ruining HG's plans. Because he's incapable of keeping it inside his pants, apparently. And Oberyn, who lived in the brothel. I swear next season we're going to see Connington sexing some random blonde whore because the audience will be completely unable to realise the guy is gay and loved Rhaegar unless there is an explicit male-male scene. I'm against introducing token gay/lesbian characters just for the hell of it, but it would be nice to see an explicit man on man sex scene to balance out all the heterosexual ones. After fat pink mask and myrish swamp I'm not so sure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairGrowsBack Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 We do need more lesbians in the story. Not bi-sexual women there to titillate and give male viewers the fantasy that this fictional woman would like him too. I wholeheartedly agree with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonifer Tasty Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 After fat pink mask and myrish swamp I'm not so sure... You know, you're right! LOL We probably don't need explicit description from Martin...just explicit mentalities... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I LOLed :laugh: oops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotpie Targaryen Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Martin has a noticeable amount of gay characters. True, none of them are POV characters, but even so...for most of the characters sexuality isn't even hinted at. Is Harwin gay? Is Harma straight? There's also plenty of ambiguity. What exactly does "abed with the Fowler twins" mean?And finally, out of those characters whom appear to be oriented one way or another, there are enough gay characters for me to feel that Martin has adequately represented my peeps.Do I wish Loras was a POV character? Of course. But there aren't any "black" people POV either, so I'm happy with what he did do, at least. He's better than 95% of other writers out there, in terms of character diversity.ETA: sorry, I did indeed misunderstand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krystalis Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 HBO definitely fucked up Loras and Oberyn with their "all gays are sex machines" attitude. It's not about how "gays behave" because there is no norm, it's about how characters behave: Loras is done with love after Renly's death and we see Jaime respect t hat, despite all the jokes. In show, Loras went out to look comfort in some random man and even spilt the beans about Sansa ruining HG's plans. Because he's incapable of keeping it inside his pants, apparently. And Oberyn, who lived in the brothel. I swear next season we're going to see Connington sexing some random blonde whore because the audience will be completely unable to realise the guy is gay and loved Rhaegar unless there is an explicit male-male scene. I confess that I would not have caught up with the fact that Renly and Loras were gay had it not been for the show. Oberyn's sexual exploits, however, had nothing to do with his sexuality. He's flamboyant in whatever he does and that's all HBO portrayed. And about Jon, well, I don't really see how his sexuality would matter to HBO seeing as Rhaegar is already dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Martin has a noticeable amount of gay characters. True, none of them are POV characters there is one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Sample chapter spoilers: A sellsword makes out with his young lover before the Battle of Meereen. It's the only openly gay moment I can think of off hand. It was hilarious when I first read it because of Tyrion's reaction.So much fail in this post... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotpie Targaryen Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Oh right, I completely forgot JonCon got a POV.Well there you go then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairGrowsBack Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 there is one! mmm who might that be ?... :rolleyes: Edit :Ninja'd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I hurts me personally when people forgets JonCon... he needs more love :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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