Northernmonkey Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 OMG HE SAID SOMETHING UN-PC! Yea, I did. Deal with it. Or just try to refute any one thing I said in that post. It just wasn't relevant. The poster you quoted admitted that the Jon/Satin stuff was a bit of a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourmyleOfCeres Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 It just wasn't relevant. The poster you quoted admitted that the Jon/Satin stuff was a bit of a joke. It's not a joke. The POV expressed by the OP is not a joke. On the contrary, it's very serious and very insidious and very sick, and I'm certainly sick of it. Stop trying to claim characters as gay. Stop trying to get PC appeasement in your works of fiction, stop trying to force creators to meet a PC quota of this or that minority. The worldview of such people is sick and dangerous, and anti-art. It could not be more relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northernmonkey Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 It's not a joke. The POV expressed by the OP is not a joke. On the contrary, it's very serious and very insidious and very sick, and I'm certainly sick of it. Stop trying to claim characters as gay. Stop trying to get PC appeasement in your works of fiction, stop trying to force creators to meet a PC quota of this or that minority. The worldview of such people is sick and dangerous, and anti-art. It could not be more relevant. The OP only claimed he'd like to see more gay characters, which is absolutely fine. He wasn't trying to claim any characters as gay. And even if he was, it's no different from posters trying to claim Dany is crazy, or Stannis is the greatest character that ever lived. People can interpret things however they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dragons Hand Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Lol I was just reading about Jon x Satin when I saw this new thread XD. On a more serious note, I would love to see one of the main character go homosexual(or bi). Possible homosexual pairs I can see:- Jon and Satin Dany and Missandei Missandei is like eight in the books. Tyrion and Bronn(heck why not) The height difference is something to think about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Nobody is saying that Martin should introduce characters just to say he has gay characters. He creates great new characters every book and I'm not against him making a few of those characters homosexuals or bisexual. Like JonCon, Oberyn, Nymeria, Blackheart, Alf, Hal,... I hurts me personally when people forgets JonCon... he needs more love :(Well, both Rhaegar and Blackheart are long dead. Unfortunately, being terminally ill and probably infectious doesn't help with starting new relationships. I was specifically referring to one who threw that cultural imperitive away and chose a female partner, which I would think might be pretty taboo in Westeros, because for the most part women aren't really given a choice if they marry or not. Dany married against her will, Cersei married against her will, so did Cat, and Asha is technically married as well.Writing gay men was somewhat less tricky, because the men have most of the power in Westeros and could have this written off because they're great warriors or leaders or have something to offer the realm as valuable as an advantageous marriage. The women, other than the Sand Snakes as mentioned below, have marriage as their main currency for power. In Westeros, a character who did not follow this path, especially a highborn one, might face a lot of backlash from family and kingdom for choosing to heed their heart and persue a lesbian relationship instead of doing the one thing women are expected to do: make a good political marriage for their family.Would we readers even recognize a lesbian character? Women have to have children. Just like men have to have children. Otherwise, they'd starve as soon as they are old. Marriage is not about love or sexual fulfillment, it's politics or economy. Lay back and think of England. A male can get away with a relationship on the side, choosing a lover he indeed loves. But not a female, regardless of whether she would take a male or female lover. I wasn't so sure Satin was gay. In the sense that he preferred men. I just thought that was what he was made to do because he grew up in a brothel. I might have missed it in the pages of it being said he was gay. Was it explicitly said? Either way I don't mind the gay characters. I thought Oberyn was pretty much a sexual predator. I don't mean in the paedo-sense, but in the "I'll have sex with anyone, anywhere, anytime, I'll double team a father/son father/daughter duo because I'm so sexy they won't be able to reject me because I so fuckin hot sense"No hint either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Well, both Rhaegar and Blackheart are long dead. Unfortunately, being terminally ill and probably infectious doesn't help with starting new relationships.I don't care =( Like JonCon, Oberyn, Nymeria, Blackheart, Alf, Hal,...Blackheart isn't gay. That was just me being silly, unless... he is and I somehow got myself an incredibly new gaydar to replace the last one that was very defective. (really, I'm the LAST ONE ever finding out who is gay among my friends) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaguya Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 OMG HE SAID SOMETHING UN-PC! Yea, I did. Deal with it. Or just try to refute any one thing I said in that post. I dont want your "Un-Pc agenda" being thrown on me, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BastardlyRock Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I don't care =( Blackheart isn't gay. That was just me being silly, unless... he is and I somehow got myself an incredibly new gaydar to replace the last one that was very defective. (really, I'm the LAST ONE ever finding out who is gay among my friends)Same here, I'll admit it wasn't until I came here I even found out JonCon was gay. :blushing: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotpie Targaryen Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 People like you are extremely creepy and the way you view the world and works of popular fiction is extremely creepy. I'm not referring to gay people, btw, when I say 'people like you'. I'm referring to a particular group of gay activists who try to 'claim' pop-culture characters as gay. Professor X and Magneto? Not gay. Jon Snow? Not gay. Bert and Ernie? Not gay - not sexual at all, they're children's characters. Holmes and Watson? Not gay. Stop trying to claim these characters and pervert the intention of their creators to promote your agenda. This case, like the X-Men case, is especially creepy in that the author involved WRITES GAY CHARACTERS. Homosexuality exists in his world, just as it did in Claremont's X-Men stories. Yet despite writing other characters as gay, neither man wrote the characters in question as gay - which makes claiming them creepy and extremely dishonest, since presumably GRRM or Claremont would have written them as gay, had they meant them to be gay. Jon Snow is shown attracted to, or in relationships with, multiple women in the books, just as Professor X and Magneto were each shown in multiple relationships with women over the years. Meanwhile there is no indication, in either case, that they are homosexual, or are attracted to the other man in question. Stop doing this. It is creepy. It does not help your cause. It hurts your cause. It makes people resent your cause.I'd say you're the creepiest thing I've read in this thread, to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghosts in winterfell Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 wow...LOL mte...[snip]First of all, I think it's time for you to take a step back and calm yourself. Its not that serious. Secondly, what is so "creepy" about analyzing what could be homoerotic subtext and/or wanting to see more LGBT representation in pop culture? Suggesting that doing any of these things is "perverting" the author's intention comes across as rather homophobic tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Blackheart isn't gay. That was just me being silly, unless... he is and I somehow got myself an incredibly new gaydar to replace the last one that was very defective. (really, I'm the LAST ONE ever finding out who is gay among my friends) There are a couple hints that Blackheart and JonCon were in a relationship while the latter was in the Golden Company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 There are a couple hints that Blackheart and JonCon were in a relationship while the latter was in the Golden Company.You mean this? "In life, Ser Myles Toyne had been ugly as sin. His famous forebear, the dark and dashing Terrence Toyne of whom the singers sang, had been so fair of face that even the king's mistress could not resist him; but Myles had been possessed of jug ears, a crooked jaw, and the biggest nose that Jon Connington had ever seen. When he smiled at you, though, none of that mattered." To be honest, that only proves he was attracted to Myles, not that it was reciprocate. I, whatsoever, do believe they had at least a little "fling" going on at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs.Grumpy Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 IIRC, JonCon and Blackheart spent a night in the tent. They were probably praying or discussing strategy. :leaving: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 A night? The probably spent a lot of nights in a tent. That doesn-- oh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustavo Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 :bowdown: :bowdown: Nedbert :bowdown: :bowdown: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Nothing sexual surprises me at this point in regards to the novels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceiteach Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 People like you are extremely creepy and the way you view the world and works of popular fiction is extremely creepy. I'm not referring to gay people, btw, when I say 'people like you'. I'm referring to a particular group of gay activists who try to 'claim' pop-culture characters as gay. Professor X and Magneto? Not gay. Jon Snow? Not gay. Bert and Ernie? Not gay - not sexual at all, they're children's characters. Holmes and Watson? Not gay. Stop trying to claim these characters and pervert the intention of their creators to promote your agenda. This case, like the X-Men case, is especially creepy in that the author involved WRITES GAY CHARACTERS. Homosexuality exists in his world, just as it did in Claremont's X-Men stories. Yet despite writing other characters as gay, neither man wrote the characters in question as gay - which makes claiming them creepy and extremely dishonest, since presumably GRRM or Claremont would have written them as gay, had they meant them to be gay. Jon Snow is shown attracted to, or in relationships with, multiple women in the books, just as Professor X and Magneto were each shown in multiple relationships with women over the years. Meanwhile there is no indication, in either case, that they are homosexual, or are attracted to the other man in question. You're the one 'claiming' characters and you do so by assuming that they are straight to begin with. Stepping forward and suggesting that these characters might be gay is no different to you asserting that they are straight. Your claim is no more accurate than theirs: sleeping with women doesn't make you straight, it isn't that simple. You're imposing real world ideas about sexuality on a fantasy world, and why? Because yours is the broken lens; you view the world through the lens of a heterosexual. You don't know that Magneto is straight, or that Jon Snow is straight, or that Sonic the Hedgehog is straight. You are assuming that they are. Creepy, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 You don't know that Magneto is straight, or that Jon Snow is straight, or that Sonic the Hedgehog is straight. You are assuming that they are. Creepy, is it?I think you're wrong there. People don't assume, we have canon and text to prove either way. In case of Jon Snow, there are several chances for him to feel attracted to any male but he hasn't. He feels attracted to women in general. So, he is straight. Thinking he's bi because he says Satin is handsome is as childish as saying that because I like to spend time with a male friend he's my boyfriend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceiteach Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I think you're wrong there. People don't assume, we have canon and text to prove either way. In case of Jon Snow, there are several chances for him to feel attracted to any male but he hasn't. He feels attracted to women in general. So, he is straight. Thinking he's bi because he says Satin is handsome is as childish as saying that because I like to spend time with a male friend he's my boyfriend. You have cannon and text to show his attraction to female characters in the series. But you don't have cannon to prove he is a heterosexual. You interpret that cannon in such a way because you are a heterosexual and don't view the narrative or indeed the world through a queer lens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BastardlyRock Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I don't know, I see where several of you are coming from. That being said, I refer a lot to when Rowling came out and said Dumbledore was gay, because it struck me as being pretty awesome. I mean, here she was, after the books were published, it changed nothing at all with the story, but she drops that little tidbit on everyone. Does it matter? Does it change the way you view the story, or the character? Should it? So what if it came out after the fact that Ned was gay, or any of these other characters we're ferociously debating over, so what? Does it really bother people so much? And for the record, having kids does not exempt you from potentially being homosexual, as many people have already pointed out, and neither does admitting a woman is beautiful! :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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