Victarion most evil character?

[Mithras]

The Reach had no reason to join Stannis even with Renly. The Reach was only on Renly's side to begin with, not Stannis'. I'm not a huge Stan fan, but Stannis viewed Renly as treasonous for calling upon the Stormlands' bannermen. (Which, objectively, he was.) Even in modern times, treason carries a death penalty.

Renly was trying to save his own skin while Stannis was hiding. Renly did his best to remove Lannisters from power. He urged Ned to seize the royal children because power lies with the children. Ned refused and Renly ran away. It was obvious that the Lannisters would eventually kill Renly unless he does something. When he united the Reach with Stormlands, he would win the war if not for the kinslaying of Stannis.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

This may be the first time I've ever seen the word clever used to describe Victarion. Three way tribute, I guess Ole Vic might just be mastering multiplication. :lmao: :thumbsup:

It worked for that sneaky guy from The Mummy...

[Mrs.Grumpy]

How can Victarion being more evil than Cersei? Really?

Cersei:

Yes, I will accuse an innocent girl of being a whore just because she is going to be a Queen instead of me so I won't lose my glory days of beauty and power, and I'll enjoy every minute of her humiliation while silently giggling at how many people stick their fingers to her little cunt to check her virginity.

vs

Victarion:

Yes, we murder men in battle, Euron, but humiliating innocent girls and raping them in front of his father is not right. Go and jump through the window, you fool.

You sound like if Vic is a saint. Cersei loves her children, so what, just one single act of goodness justifies her bad deeds, because it means she has some good side? And Vic wasn't annoyed of the rape. He was annoyed because he thought one of them might be his enemy's wife and "it's not cool", not that he's against rape.

Why don't you mention his sacrifices to R'hllor and the Drowned God or murdering his wife (but he cried while murdering her!! so it's ok to murder someone if I cry enough?) or throwing slave boys into the sea because they are "abominations" who didn't choice to become bed slaves in the first place?

[JonCon's Red Beard]

You sound like if Vic is a saint. Cersei loves her children, so what, just one single act of goodness justifies her bad deeds, because it means she has some good side? And Vic wasn't annoyed of the rape. He was annoyed because he thought one of them might be his enemy's wife and "it's not cool", not that he's against rape.

I've never said that Vic is a saint. He's not evil, if by evil we meant he does bad things just for the sake of it, and enjoys it. He's definitely not that kind of man and he does have limitations to his actions, which is something neither Ramsay, Tywin or Gregor were able to do. I know being religious doesn't justify wrong actions but we can say the same about motherhood, in Cersei's case.

Because many justify Cersei's wrong deeds with "she does it because she loves her children". Well, many parents do very terrible things in name of the love they feel for their children. Parents who severely punish kids for bad grades think they do the best for them, and I remember the case of a mom who cyber-bullied a girl via Facebook until she killed herself. I'm sure she meant to protect her own child, but she still caused someone to die. Cersei doesn't care how much people she hurts as long as she "protects" his children, which in fact, are in more danger with her as a mother than without her protecting them.

Why don't you mention his sacrifices to R'hllor and the Drowned God or murdering his wife (but he cried while murdering her!! so it's ok to murder someone if I cry enough?) or throwing slave boys into the sea because they are "abominations" who didn't choice to become bed slaves in the first place?

I don't mention them because I'm not saying Victarion is a good nice old chap who should be soon canonized. What I mean to say is that he's not evil as many other characters are. Can you name one time when either Ramsay or Gregor said "no, let's not do that, that's wrong"? Victarion, dumb as (many say) he is, is able to distinguish right for wrong and set his own boundaries. He does what he dos because his culture demands him to be certain way. He can't go and say "you know what? let's not pillage". By any case, he's wrong about many things, but he's not evil.

[Mithras]

And Vic wasn't annoyed of the rape. He was annoyed because he thought one of them might be his enemy's wife and "it's not cool", not that he's against rape.

Vic was annoyed because he did not like the way Euron humiliated the defeated enemy.

He shames Hewett as he once shamed me, the captain thought, remembering how his wife had sobbed as he was beating her. The men of the Four Shields oft married one another, he knew, just as the ironborn did. One of these naked serving wenches might well be Ser Talbert Serry’s wife. It was one thing to kill a foe, another to dishonor him. Victarion made a fist. His hand was bloody where his wound had soaked through the linen.

Victarion clearly has a sense of right and wrong. He felt guilty and ashamed of killing his wife. He praised Talbert Serry for his skill and courage. Ramsay and Gregor do not have such standards. Neither does Cersei.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

It worked for that sneaky guy from The Mummy...

LOL, I always got a kick out of the sneaky guy from The Mummy. He even had the talking in different tongues to go with all multi-religious amulets.

[jaimecersei]

lol at these comments. victarion is an evil POS, he's just as fucking awful as Euron really. except he doesn't have the charm and is a whiny baby. he's also far more evil than cersei, the fact that people here think she's worse once again makes me question how many brain cells people have.

agreed with you OP, victarion is the most evil POV character

[jaimecersei]

I've never said that Vic is a saint. He's not evil, if by evil we meant he does bad things just for the sake of it, and enjoys it. He's definitely not that kind of man and he does have limitations to his actions, which is something neither Ramsay, Tywin or Gregor were able to do. I know being religious doesn't justify wrong actions but we can say the same about motherhood, in Cersei's case.

Because many justify Cersei's wrong deeds with "she does it because she loves her children". Well, many parents do very terrible things in name of the love they feel for their children. Parents who severely punish kids for bad grades think they do the best for them, and I remember the case of a mom who cyber-bullied a girl via Facebook until she killed herself. I'm sure she meant to protect her own child, but she still caused someone to die. Cersei doesn't care how much people she hurts as long as she "protects" his children, which in fact, are in more danger with her as a mother than without her protecting them.

I don't mention them because I'm not saying Victarion is a good nice old chap who should be soon canonized. What I mean to say is that he's not evil as many other characters are. Can you name one time when either Ramsay or Gregor said "no, let's not do that, that's wrong"? Victarion, dumb as (many say) he is, is able to distinguish right for wrong and set his own boundaries. He does what he dos because his culture demands him to be certain way. He can't go and say "you know what? let's not pillage". By any case, he's wrong about many things, but he's not evil.

Cersei doesn't particularly enjoy the evil shit she does either. I don't recall her ever taking sadistic pleasure or joy from sending women to Qyburn or murdering Melara.

Sure she likes to see her enemies fail, but the Tyrells and Margaery also killed her son and were actively plotting against her. They weren't exactly innocent angels either.

Victarion is a fucking moron and whiny pussy bitch who makes himself to be the victim for all the terrible shit he does. and a hypocritical in such a fucking stupid way that its both laughable and utterly despicable. but ofc people here like him bc he's a "badass" rme. could this place get any more predictable?

[jaimecersei]

Maybe not the most evil one, but he's definitely evil. Just because there are other people who are worse than him, it doesn't mean he is all good.

He burned 7 women as an offering to R'hllor and the Drowned God because they were beautiful. He enjoyed their screams. (Zealot)

He beated and killed his wife while she was pregnant, "fed her to the crabs". (Abusive, murderer and misogynist)

He chained and threw perfumed slave boys, because they were "abominations". (Homophobic)

He burned Maester Kerwin as an offering to R'hllor because he was "poisoning" his hand while he had no evidence and it was most likely the dusky woman who poisoned his hand. (Dumb)

I really don't understand how can you guys like him? I can't stand him, I hope he dies as soon as possible in a painful way.

Oh, and Gregor or Ramsay are no different than Barristan, because you know, they only know a single way to solve their problems; their sword or knife.

um excuse you he's just a very misunderstood man ok!!!!!!

[Lady Fevre Dream]

Cersei doesn't particularly enjoy the evil shit she does either. I don't recall her ever taking sadistic pleasure or joy from sending women to Qyburn or murdering Melara.

Sure she likes to see her enemies fail, but the Tyrells and Margaery also killed her son and were actively plotting against her. They weren't exactly innocent angels either.

Victarion is a fucking moron and whiny pussy bitch who makes himself to be the victim for all the terrible shit he does. and a hypocritical in such a fucking stupid way that its both laughable and utterly despicable. but ofc people here like him bc he's a "badass" rme. could this place get any more predictable?

It's a shame she doesn't have as much concern for that other son of hers, Tommen. The one she wishes she could cower back into place and out of her way to power with the likes of The Hound as Master at Arms in the Red Keep. Cersei may have had some twisted love for Joffrey, and yes, even the two remaining kids, but she loves the power that she can derive from them much more. It's amazing that Tommen is such a good kid, with her continued love for him being shown by things like Pate the Whipping Boy. Tommen is decent inspite of Cersei, it seems to me. Myrcella may be missing an ear, but luckily, she's also missed lots of Cersei's motherly love. I wonder, if Myrcella returns to KL anytime soon, will it be to only wish that she could return to Dorne?

As far as Vic, I don't think he's evil. What he is is stupid........and that in and of itself can be as dangerous as evil, unfortunately.

[jaimecersei]

It's a shame she doesn't have as much concern for that other son of hers, Tommen. The one she wishes she could cower back into place and out of her way to power with the likes of The Hound as Master at Arms in the Red Keep. Cersei may have had some twisted love for Joffrey, and yes, even the two remaining kids, but she loves the power that she can derive from them much more. It's amazing that Tommen is such a good kid, with her continued love for him being shown by things like Pate the Whipping Boy. Tommen is decent inspite of Cersei, it seems to me. Myrcella may be missing an ear, but luckily, she's also missed lots of Cersei's motherly love. I wonder, if Myrcella returns to KL anytime soon, will it be to only wish that she could return to Dorne?

As far as Vic, I don't think he's evil. What he is is stupid........and that in and of itself can be as dangerous as evil, unfortunately.

oh i totally agree with you that cersei's love for her kids is rooted in her own ambition. and that its a very selfish love. cersei is no doubt an awful mother . but i think in her own twisted way, i understand why she does the things she does?? like her treatment of Tommen in AFFC is gross, but I understand because Tommen is all that she has. She is completely alone in KL surrounded by people who are working to seize her power and actively conspiring her. So I understand why she's clings onto Tommen so desperately and fiercely.

It's not justified or forgiveable but I get it. People forget that Cersei's main concern in AFFC is that Tommen may end up dead any minute, so I get why she's so harsh and wants to control him.

and NAH vic is fucking evil and he's especially dangerous because he beleives he's doing everything for the sake of religion. thats how most terrorists are like in the real world jfc. crazy religious zealots are the worst.

[Charles Calthrop]

Renly was trying to save his own skin while Stannis was hiding. Renly did his best to remove Lannisters from power. He urged Ned to seize the royal children because power lies with the children. Ned refused and Renly ran away. It was obvious that the Lannisters would eventually kill Renly unless he does something. When he united the Reach with Stormlands, he would win the war if not for the kinslaying of Stannis.

Still treason. If all he wanted to do was save his life, he should have brought over everyone else to Stannis once he got away from King's Landing. I also doubt he would have won the war on his own. Both Donal Noye and Catelyn observed that he was fairly incompetent as a commander.

Not saying Stannis was a saint by any means - but treason is commonly (even in modern times) punishable by death. And Renly's actions are clearly treason within the structure of the time.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

oh i totally agree with you that cersei's love for her kids is rooted in her own ambition. and that its a very selfish love. cersei is no doubt an awful mother . but i think in her own twisted way, i understand why she does the things she does?? like her treatment of Tommen in AFFC is gross, but I understand because Tommen is all that she has. She is completely alone in KL surrounded by people who are working to seize her power and actively conspiring her. So I understand why she's clings onto Tommen so desperately and fiercely.

It's not justified or forgiveable but I get it. People forget that Cersei's main concern in AFFC is that Tommen may end up dead any minute, so I get why she's so harsh and wants to control him.

and NAH vic is fucking evil and he's especially dangerous because he beleives he's doing everything for the sake of religion. thats how most terrorists are like in the real world jfc. crazy religious zealots are the worst.

I do totally get why Cersei is the way she is with Tommen, on one hand she worries thanks to the prophecy and all, and then on the other, she does things to keep Tommen down, selfishly. I think that thought of hers about the Hound and Tommen was one of the most horrible thoughts she's ever had, and that's saying something. As far as everyone plotting against Cersei, I'd say....she does lots to enable the plotting. The way she behaves and plots against everyone around her, leaves them no choice. I'm sure part of Cersei hates being mean to Tommen, but......it doesn't stop her from doing it, and that in itself makes it hard for me to have any sympathy for the Cersei we met in AFFC. I would have been interested in her POV before Joff's death, it might have been a bit saner. I think by the time we do get inside her mind, she's so far gone....that her thoughts and her actions just make it hard for me to feel anything but disgust at her. She's funny, sometimes, her thoughts, but mostly, I feel the need of a shower after reading her POVs. She is so awful to all those around her, is responsible for many horrors, and not much in her thoughts and actions toward Tommen do anything to make up for it.

I do agree on the religious fanaticism, I hate it, real and imagined in ASOIAF. That is what makes Vic's stupidity double dangerous, since it is mixed up with two religions. It's double scary, LOL

[HairGrowsBack]

Cersie says hello.

Victarion is worse than Cersei, Imo.

She's a terrible person, but he's downright awful.

[Cas Stark]

I do totally get why Cersei is the way she is with Tommen, on one hand she worries thanks to the prophecy and all, and then on the other, she does things to keep Tommen down, selfishly. I think that thought of hers about the Hound and Tommen was one of the most horrible thoughts she's ever had, and that's saying something. As far as everyone plotting against Cersei, I'd say....she does lots to enable the plotting. The way she behaves and plots against everyone around her, leaves them no choice. I'm sure part of Cersei hates being mean to Tommen, but......it doesn't stop her from doing it, and that in itself makes it hard for me to have any sympathy for the Cersei we met in AFFC. I would have been interested in her POV before Joff's death, it might have been a bit saner. I think by the time we do get inside her mind, she's so far gone....that her thoughts and her actions just make it hard for me to feel anything but disgust at her. She's funny, sometimes, her thoughts, but mostly, I feel the need of a shower after reading her POVs. She is so awful to all those around her, is responsible for many horrors, and not much in her thoughts and actions toward Tommen do anything to make up for it.

I do agree on the religious fanaticism, I hate it, real and imagined in ASOIAF. That is what makes Vic's stupidity double dangerous, since it is mixed up with two religions. It's double scary, LOL

Because Joff is the son she crafted, that's why. Because cruelty for the sake of proving you can be cruel is 100% Cersei. Joff is the son on whom she lavished her time and affection: result, sadistic freak...the fact that she finds the sadistic cruel nut preferable to Tommen should tell people all they need to know about her.

She is much more evil than Vic, who I'm not sure even cracks the top 10, he's a run of the mill IB fundamentalist.

[jaimecersei]

Because Joff is the son she crafted, that's why. Because cruelty for the sake of proving you can be cruel is 100% Cersei. Joff is the son on whom she lavished her time and affection: result, sadistic freak...the fact that she finds the sadistic cruel nut preferable to Tommen should tell people all they need to know about her.

She is much more evil than Vic, who I'm not sure even cracks the top 10, he's a run of the mill IB fundamentalist.

ummmm no. Cersei blindly loves Joffrey because he's her firstborn more than anything else. he's a symbol of the first time that she had any control over her own body and life. the first symbol of her actively exercising her own agency by bearing the child of a man who actually loves her instead of bearing her abusive husband's kid.

also Joffrey was just born a sociopath so I'm not sure how much Cersei could have done and Robert is just as responsible as Cersei for how Joffrey ended up being.

I think people forget that Tywin fucking Lannister is the only role model Cersei has had when it comes to parenting so it really isn't that surprising she's not a good mother. Also prophecies that say that you're going to outlive your kids don't help either especially when you've already had one of your kids be brutally murdered in your arms.

lmao if Victarion is your run of the mill IB fundamentalist, then why can't Cersei be your run of the mil Tywin Lannister daughter?? the hypocrisy in this post is downright laughable

[Boarsbane]

ummmm no. Cersei blindly loves Joffrey because he's her firstborn more than anything else. he's a symbol of the first time that she had any control over her own body and life. the first symbol of her actively exercising her own agency by bearing the child of a man who actually loves her instead of bearing her abusive husband's kid.

also Joffrey was just born a sociopath so I'm not sure how much Cersei could have done and Robert is just as responsible as Cersei for how Joffrey ended up being.

I think people forget that Tywin fucking Lannister is the only role model Cersei has had when it comes to parenting so it really isn't that surprising she's not a good mother. Also prophecies that say that you're going to outlive your kids don't help either especially when you've already had one of your kids be brutally murdered in your arms.

lmao if Victarion is your run of the mill IB fundamentalist, then why can't Cersei be your run of the mil Tywin Lannister daughter?? the hypocrisy in this post is downright laughable

So in Joff's case he was just born a psycho and it isn't at all Cersei's fault but in Cersei's case we should just blame it all on Tywin even though he seems to have been an at least decent father to both her and Jaime.

[Cas Stark]

ummmm no. Cersei blindly loves Joffrey because he's her firstborn more than anything else. he's a symbol of the first time that she had any control over her own body and life. the first symbol of her actively exercising her own agency by bearing the child of a man who actually loves her instead of bearing her abusive husband's kid.

also Joffrey was just born a sociopath so I'm not sure how much Cersei could have done and Robert is just as responsible as Cersei for how Joffrey ended up being.

I think people forget that Tywin fucking Lannister is the only role model Cersei has had when it comes to parenting so it really isn't that surprising she's not a good mother. Also prophecies that say that you're going to outlive your kids don't help either especially when you've already had one of your kids be brutally murdered in your arms.

lmao if Victarion is your run of the mill IB fundamentalist, then why can't Cersei be your run of the mil Tywin Lannister daughter?? the hypocrisy in this post is downright laughable

Eh? Is this the same Cersei who fucked her brother on her wedding day? This poor gal who lacked any agency her whole life? The same Cersei who convinced her brother to join the KG and give up his inheritance to be near her? The same Cersei who threw Melara down the well? LMAO.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Cersei doesn't particularly enjoy the evil shit she does either. I don't recall her ever taking sadistic pleasure or joy from sending women to Qyburn or murdering Melara.

The picture of this sour old crone poking her wrinkled fingers up Margaery's little pink cunt was so droll that Cersei almost laughed. "We insist that His High Holiness allow our own maesters to examine my good-daughter, to determine if there is any shred of truth to these slanders. Grand Maester Pycelle, you shall accompany Septa Moelle back to Beloved Baelor's Sept, and return to us with the truth about our Margaery's maidenhead."

There is Cersei enjoying the sexual humiliation of an innocent girl and indirectly, trying to impose more of that to her. The crime? Her son liked the little Queen.

[jaimecersei]

So in Joff's case he was just born into it and it isn't at all Cersei's fault but in Cersei's case we should just blame it all on Tywin even though he seems to have been an at least decent father to both her and Jaime.

Of course we should blame Cersei for it. She spoiled and enabled Joffrey and gave him all the love and freedom in the world. I'm not saying we should blame Tywin for everything, I'm saying that its clear that Cersei models parenting from Tywin even though she loves her children much more than Tywin loves his kids imo. and I can't see Cersei ever being as awful to give Tommen the Tysha treatment as awful of a parent as she is.

That user said that Victarion is a product of their environment which I would agree to en extent. In my opinion, it is ALWAYS both nature and nurture that develops a person. Its never only one. My question is if people can say that Victarion is infleunced by his environment, can't we say that Tywin's parenting is also responsible for how Cersei turned out to be to an extent. I think Cersei should be accountable for her own actions, but one can't deny that Tywin's parenting fucked her up.

and no Tywin was a fucking abhorrent father