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What happens next with Theon?


Ser Jonny Loker

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@Damp Hair,


While I share your Theon love, I think everyone can (and should) get Theon (maybe that's your point).



What a great character. GRRM is a genius if for nothing else than for creating Theon.


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I judge people whom hate Theon & assume they grew up in a lovely nuclear family &'ve generally lived a charmed life.

People who come from a broken home GET Theon. People who have ever been homeless GET Theon. People who have ever had to make a decision in an IMPOSSIBLE SITUATION GET Theon. People who have identity problems & don't fit nicely into some classification GET Theon. People who have felt held prisoner by circumstance & then finally get a chance to break free & be their own person GET Theon.

Some say he is a cocky douche but if you looked a little closer you'll see a lot of that is classic overcompensating for being made to feel powerless (being a a lothario w/ the one thing he had agency over). Being a prisoner (he was a child hostage people) for most of your natural life will build up resentment okay.

Theon was 10 years w/ the Greyjoys, 10 years w/ the Starks when GoT starts (& not incidentally). Besides the redemptive arc, Theon is like Snape because he is smack dab in the middle of two worlds & cannot win b/c of it, and that is inherently tragic.

Besides his IMPOSSIBLE SITUATION, yea, in order to salvage himself & his men's hold on Winterfell he listened to the advice of ReekRamsay (who some people think is a great guy for some reason) & had two peasant children killed. A LOT worse has been done in ASOIAF & no one is innocent.

nailed it, bro.

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Thanks 2ndtolast. Seriously dude has lots of conflict that make him interesting but I feel he gets hated on for reasons that are relatively superficial and not considerate of WHY a person is like they are or does what they do. Theon was a Prince, an heir to a Kingdom, & yet became a political hostage through no fault of his own as a child & then the brief time he gets freedom he tries something daring & gets tortured into madness by a 100% evil psycho.



Be is Ned, Ramsay, or Stannis -everyone finds it of great utility to be in possession of Theon, yet for all his value he he's only briefly ever had autonomy.



People who think Theon is about to die in this story are going to be dissapointed, sorry. You have to remember your name. THEON GREYJOY. Now all the legend needs is a cool nickname, Snapegollem


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Ahh that is what I thought.

I am hoping for the same thing. I am not certain Theon will live this out, but I do see him making one last attempt to honor the Starks. Sure his family lost in the rebellion, but as far as we know, Ned treated him well. If anyone has been in his position or knows someone who has, it is easier to be sympathetic with Theon. At least understand his position. I would definitely like him to have a shot a redemption, on the level of Boromir, sort of. Or as you suggest Snape.

Well, actually, according to his POV chapters in ACOK, Theon didn't see Ned as treating him well. He always felt like an outsider in Winterfell and he seems to feel that Ned was little more than his jailer. That's likely a major simplification on Theon's part while trying to justify striking back at them, but it's his mindset in that book. He definitely isn't thinking that way as of the end of ADWD, however.

I see Theon rescuing Jeyne as a step towards trying to make up for what he did to the Starks. I don't think the character will ever end up with a heroic death like Boromir or Snape, though. That doesn't seem to be GRRM's style. I do expect him to do something else before the end of the series that helps the Starks. What that might be I have no idea. Perhaps it'll simply be him identifying "Arya" as Jeyne Poole. That simple act could be enough to get other northerners to turn against the Boltons (which they're already doing on some level). In that sense he could be the catalyst for helping the remaining Starks and northerners get justice for the Red Wedding.

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Man, I really really really hope Theon doesn't die. And he is unarguably the #1 most interesting character in ASOIAF.

He strikes me more of a Gollum of the series rather than a Snape. Snape was secretly a good guy while Gollum was never a good guy but always pitiable.

snape wasn't always "good"

and gollum/smeagol wasn't always "bad"

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@Damp Hair - The Prophet: I don't think many people would deny that Theon is a very interesting and well-written character. His ADWD chapters especially, were the best. But to say that people who hate him only do so for superficial reasons is a bit unfair... and outright wrong. Considering we're talking about a character who murdered two innocent boys to cover up his mistake and then mutilated their corpses. Let's not forget that he also raped Kyra and "f***ed her until she wept" (paraphrasing.) And I'm not going to say "He betrayed the Starks!!1!" because I don't think he owed Starks anything. Well-treated or not, he was their hostage still. BUT being a rapist and a child murderer is a good reason to hate a character. (I know, crazy right?)



Of course that doesn't mean he "deserved" what he got (no one does) but Theon fans seem to focus too much on his rocky childhood and the fact that he owes Starks nothing (both points I agree with, btw) to recall the actual vile things he'd done. Theon is a hella interesting character, but that doesn't make him a good one.


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Thanks 2ndtolast. Seriously dude has lots of conflict that make him interesting but I feel he gets hated on for reasons that are relatively superficial and not considerate of WHY a person is like they are or does what they do. Theon was a Prince, an heir to a Kingdom, & yet became a political hostage through no fault of his own as a child & then the brief time he gets freedom he tries something daring & gets tortured into madness by a 100% evil psycho.

Be is Ned, Ramsay, or Stannis -everyone finds it of great utility to be in possession of Theon, yet for all his value he he's only briefly ever had autonomy.

People who think Theon is about to die in this story are going to be dissapointed, sorry. You have to remember your name. THEON GREYJOY. Now all the legend needs is a cool nickname, Snapegollem

He's not 'about to die' as in he will survive his trip to be executed, but as far as any future beyond living a little longer and maybe dying in battle or in the act of taking out an enemy, I don't see anything else for him. He will never rule the Iron Islands, so what else is left for him? His own people will shun him, the North will shun him....what is left for him but a good death?

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@Castark - His own people will not shun him when they see what a survivor he is, rather they will respect him. He'll have his sis to rule beside him and and the support of her suitors as her kid(s) will inherit the Seastone Chair after Theon.Asha's excitement at hearing the story of Tormund the Latecomer indicates her intentions here. Who else will end up ruling the Iron Islands by the end of the story? Theon& Asha are the only people who could reconcile them w/ the mainland.



@LadyWylla - As to your points, it can definitely be said that being the Prince of Winterfell was Theon's dark period wherein he came closest to outright villainy. Kyra would've been treated even worse by his men but yes he forces himself roughly on her in his black moods. It was RamsayReek who suggested and killed the farmboys, which was about the only way Theon might have salvaged his hold over Winterfell.



How many innocent peasants do you suppose died from the wars Ned or Robert or Dany or Tywin instigated? Tywin sacked Kingslanding & yet he is later welcomed back to rule as Hand. Theon shows more remorse & awareness of his past wrongdoings than any character in this world.


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@LadyWylla - As to your points, it can definitely be said that being the Prince of Winterfell was Theon's dark period wherein he came closest to outright villainy. Kyra would've been treated even worse by his men but yes he forces himself roughly on her in his black moods. It was RamsayReek who suggested and killed the farmboys, which was about the only way Theon might have salvaged his hold over Winterfell.

How many innocent peasants do you suppose died from the wars Ned or Robert or Dany or Tywin instigated? Tywin sacked Kingslanding & yet he is later welcomed back to rule as Hand. Theon shows more remorse & awareness of his past wrongdoings than any character in this world.

I still think, though, there's a difference between killing two boys in cold blood and open war. The latter does more damage, but there's something far more cruel about the former. (It's the difference between the Red Wedding and a battlefield, if that makes sense?) Ramsay may have suggested it but Theon went through with it. It happened because of Theon. That's like laying all the blame of what happened to Rhaenys and Aegon (kids of Rhaegar) on the Mountain and Amory Lorch, but trying to defend Tywin.

We're getting off topic here, though. My point was that while I despise the "Theon deserved what he got!" or "He betrayed the Starks!!" people as much as you do, it's wrong to imply (as you did) that it's ridiculous for people to hate Theon. I think readers have got plenty of good reasons to do so.

On a more relevant note to the thread, I don't understand why people believe that Theon would rule as the King of the Iron Islands? I think Asha has a chance as the Queen, in the end, but with what Theon went through, it's hard to imagine the ironmen "respecting" him. (Especially considering he led his countrymen to Ramsay and they ended up being flayed?)

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snape wasn't always "good"

and gollum/smeagol wasn't always "bad"

Yes, of course you are right. They are much more complex than that which makes them the two most interesting characters in their respective series.

What I was trying to say was that in the end Snape was motivated by love and gollum by his "addiction" to the ring.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I judge people whom hate Theon & assume they grew up in a lovely nuclear family &'ve generally lived a charmed life.

People who come from a broken home GET Theon. People who have ever been homeless GET Theon. People who have ever had to make a decision in an IMPOSSIBLE SITUATION GET Theon. People who have identity problems & don't fit nicely into some classification GET Theon. People who have felt held prisoner by circumstance & then finally get a chance to break free & be their own person GET Theon.

Some say he is a cocky douche but if you looked a little closer you'll see a lot of that is classic overcompensating for being made to feel powerless (being a a lothario w/ the one thing he had agency over). Being a prisoner (he was a child hostage people) for most of your natural life will build up resentment okay.

Theon was 10 years w/ the Greyjoys, 10 years w/ the Starks when GoT starts (& not incidentally). Besides the redemptive arc, Theon is like Snape because he is smack dab in the middle of two worlds & cannot win b/c of it, and that is inherently tragic.

Besides his IMPOSSIBLE SITUATION, yea, in order to salvage himself & his men's hold on Winterfell he listened to the advice of ReekRamsay (who some people think is a great guy for some reason) & had two peasant children killed. A LOT worse has been done in ASOIAF & no one is innocent.

Wow. That was very profound. I commend you.

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Stannis will be king of the 7K and Theon will be LP of the Iron Islands and Master of Ships. The North will forgive him and Dany will stay in SB and Jon was not actually hurt and the twincest was actually an illusion created by Cersei who was actually a warlock and Arya joins Jon and Sansa marries Stannis and Asha gets to rule the Stony Shore and SDP and JonCon did not have greyscale and Tyrion returns to be LP of the West and everyone lives happily ever after.

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I judge people whom hate Theon & assume they grew up in a lovely nuclear family &'ve generally lived a charmed life.

People who come from a broken home GET Theon. People who have ever been homeless GET Theon. People who have ever had to make a decision in an IMPOSSIBLE SITUATION GET Theon. People who have identity problems & don't fit nicely into some classification GET Theon. People who have felt held prisoner by circumstance & then finally get a chance to break free & be their own person GET Theon.

Some say he is a cocky douche but if you looked a little closer you'll see a lot of that is classic overcompensating for being made to feel powerless (being a a lothario w/ the one thing he had agency over). Being a prisoner (he was a child hostage people) for most of your natural life will build up resentment okay.

Theon was 10 years w/ the Greyjoys, 10 years w/ the Starks when GoT starts (& not incidentally). Besides the redemptive arc, Theon is like Snape because he is smack dab in the middle of two worlds & cannot win b/c of it, and that is inherently tragic.

Besides his IMPOSSIBLE SITUATION, yea, in order to salvage himself & his men's hold on Winterfell he listened to the advice of ReekRamsay (who some people think is a great guy for some reason) & had two peasant children killed. A LOT worse has been done in ASOIAF & no one is innocent.

I don't hate Theon...but I can see why people do. He's a polarizing character. It has shit-all to do with how someone was raised or what kind of family they had, and has everything to do with an individual's preferences. It's bullshit to say that someone who grew up in a loving home can't understand how hard it was for Theon growing up because they wouldn't 'get it'. It's also bullshit to say that someone from a broken home would feel sympathetic for him because they do. I don't read books that only have characters who grew up in a similar lifestyle to mine...I read books to see what life is like for those who live differently from me. So maybe it would work better to stay away from sweeping generalizations and stop judging people because of how they view a character in a book.

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To be more clear, I really loathe the way some people dismiss certain opinions by calling them "Stark filter" or "Stark lens." Apparently liking Starks is too "mainstream" for some... or something. For the life of me, I can't think of a reason why it's so unreasonable or weird for people to pick a favourite character and/or a family and root for them intensely. It's totally okay for others but when a Stark fan does it, it's suddenly a "filter" or a "lens."

There are certain Stark fans who make them out to be the absolute epitome of morality, and get unnecessarily defensive when anything negative is said about their favorites. Ned Stark could have done anything and these fans would still defend him no matter what, because his last name is Stark so, in their minds, that makes him a "good guy". Same with Robb, Arya etc. The Starks are as flawed as any other characters in the series but these fans will get pretty hostile if you point that out. In my experience, fans of other families and characters can take criticism of their favorites more easily and admit they're not perfect.

Now, I know not all fans of the Starks are like this but they exist and that's why the "Stark lens" label can be quite accurate at times. I want to stress though, that I'm not saying there's anything wrong with liking the Starks. :)

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I judge people whom hate Theon & assume they grew up in a lovely nuclear family &'ve generally lived a charmed life.

People who come from a broken home GET Theon. People who have ever been homeless GET Theon. People who have ever had to make a decision in an IMPOSSIBLE SITUATION GET Theon. People who have identity problems & don't fit nicely into some classification GET Theon. People who have felt held prisoner by circumstance & then finally get a chance to break free & be their own person GET Theon.

Some say he is a cocky douche but if you looked a little closer you'll see a lot of that is classic overcompensating for being made to feel powerless (being a a lothario w/ the one thing he had agency over). Being a prisoner (he was a child hostage people) for most of your natural life will build up resentment okay.

Theon was 10 years w/ the Greyjoys, 10 years w/ the Starks when GoT starts (& not incidentally). Besides the redemptive arc, Theon is like Snape because he is smack dab in the middle of two worlds & cannot win b/c of it, and that is inherently tragic.

Besides his IMPOSSIBLE SITUATION, yea, in order to salvage himself & his men's hold on Winterfell he listened to the advice of ReekRamsay (who some people think is a great guy for some reason) & had two peasant children killed. A LOT worse has been done in ASOIAF & no one is innocent.

:agree: You just summed everything up perfectly.

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