Rhaenys_Targaryen

The Wiki-Timeline Project [Calculations]

170 posts in this topic

Ok, thanks. :)





Aegor's mother, Barba Bracken, gave birth to Aegor after Aegon had ascended to the throne. Aegon ascended to the throne in 172 AC. Barba was Aegons fifth mistress. As Aegons sixth mistress, Melissa, “reigned” for five years, and was replaced in 177 AC, meaning she became Aegons mistress in 172 AC, thereby confirming that Barba had seized to be Aegons mistress in 172AC.[15]


That leaves only 172 AC as the possible birth year for Aegor Rivers.



Based on this information, couldn't Aegor also have been in 173AL?


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, thanks. :)

Based on this information, couldn't Aegor also have been in 173AL?

Aegor was born a fortnight before Daenerys, and she was definitely born in 172 AC. That rules out 173 for Aegor..

As to Alyn, kind of wondering how to voice it.. we can give 115 as a minimum, but how to voice the maximum?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aegor was born a fortnight before Daenerys, and she was definitely born in 172 AC. That rules out 173 for Aegor..

Ok, maybe this should be added then?

As to Alyn, kind of wondering how to voice it.. we can give 115 as a minimum, but how to voice the maximum?

If we have no information about the maximum, I think it should be stated like:

No maximum can be given.

Alyn was thus born in or after 115AC.

Note: It's likely that Alyn was born rather close to 115AC, because...

I don't know if any reasons can be given. Maybe trying to tame a dragon, being close with his brother, speaking for or against anyone or anything at court at a certain time,...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, maybe this should be added then?

Definitly, I'll rewrite Aegor when I get home. The fact that he was 24 in 196 AC should also be added (if my memory on the ssm is correct). Will do this tonight.

Strange though... That originally was there.. did I delete it?

If we have no information about the maximum, I think it should be stated like:

No maximum can be given.

Alyn was thus born in or after 115AC.

Note: It's likely that Alyn was born rather close to 115AC, because...

I don't know if any reasons can be given. Maybe trying to tame a dragon, being close with his brother, speaking for or against anyone or anything at court at a certain time,...

Yeah, probably this is the best solution Edited by Rhaenys_Targaryen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've updated the events-page slightly, but I have been doubting whether to keep the "namedays" section.

What do you guys think?

Why wouldn't you keep that section? I think it's helpful, even if there were some inaccuracies. :-)

Some things I noticed:

Aegon is believed to be 50 years old in 299 AC.[6] That gives him the following options:

  • 49 turning 50 in 299AC, placing his birth in 249AC
  • 50 turning 51 in 299AC, placing his birth in 248AC

No further specifications can be given. Aegon was thus born in either 248 AC or 249 AC.

Ser Alliser was a man of 50 years in 298 AC.[40] Being 50 in 298 AC gives the following options:

  • Being 49 turning 50 in 298 AC, placing his birth in 248AC
  • Being 50 turning 51 in 298 AC, placing his birth in 247AC

No further indication can be given. Ser Alliser was born in either 247 AC or 248 AC.

Both Aegon and Alliser are believed to be men of fifty years. But in my opinion that just means that they are around fifty years old.

Alerie is known to be younger than her husband, Mace Tyrell.[35] Mace Tyrell was born in 256 AC (see Mace Tyrell), meaning Alerie was born in 257AC or later.

Alerie’s first born child was born in 276 AC the latest (see Willas Tyrell). Alerie would have been at least 13 years old during Willas’ birth, meaning that Alerie will not have been born any later than 263AC.

No further specifications can be given. Alerie was thus born in or between 257 AC and 263 AC.

Couldn't Alerie also have been born in 256 AC, just later in the year than Mace?

Alicent was 18 years old when she got married in 106AC.[38] That gives her the following options:

  • 17 turning 18 in 106AC, placing her birth in 88AC
  • 18 turning 19 in 106AC, placing her birth in 87AC

No other specifications can be given. Alicent was thus born in either 87 AC or 88 AC.

It's a historical work, so the third rule applies.

Alysanne is almost of an age with Asha Greyjoy, suggesting Alysanne is either a few years younger, or a few years older.[46] Asha Greyjoy was born in either 275AC or 276AC (see Asha Greyjoy). Technically, Alysanne could thus have been born in 276AC the earliest.

If Alysanne can also be a few years older than Asha, she could also have been born before 275 AC.

Alyssa's husband was Walder Frey. She was his fourth wife. Walders fifth wife gave him no children, but Walder sixth wife, Bethany Rosby, did. Bethany's eldest child by Walder was born no later than 278AC (see Perwyn Frey). This means that Perwyn was conceived no later than 277AC, and thus that the marriage of Bethany and Walder will have taken place no later than 277AC. Since it is possible that Walder's fifth wife, Sarya Whent, was married to him only for a short time, before dying, and since it is possible that Walders fourth wife, Alyssa, had died only shortly before Walders marriage to Sarya, Alyssa could have died in 277AC the latest.

I know it's highly unlikely, but couldn't Perwyn also have been conceived on the last day of the second month in 278 AC, so he was born on the last day of 278? If Alyssa died on the first day of 278 and Sarya died immediatley after her wedding, everything could have occured in 278 AC - in theory at least.

Amerei has been mentioned to have been 16 years old in 299 AC.[41][36] This leaves two options for Amerei:

  • 15 turning 16 in 299 AC, placing her birth in 283AC
  • 16 turning 17 in 299 AC, placing her birth in 282AC

Jaime Lannister judges Amerei to be “some 18 years” halfway through 300 AC.[50] If Amerei is 18 years old in 300 AC, this gives the following options:

  • 17 turning 18 in 300 AC, placing her birth in 282AC
  • 18 turning 19 in 300 AC, placing her birth in 281AC

282AC is the only overlapping year. Amerei was thus born in 282 AC.

Maybe Jaime misjudged her, because she looks older than she actually is? So it would still be possible that she was born in 283 AC.

And once more: Great job. :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why wouldn't you keep that section? I think it's helpful, even if there were some inaccuracies. :-)

I thought it might be a bit messy, but good to hear people like it :)

Both Aegon and Alliser are believed to be men of fifty years. But in my opinion that just means that they are around fifty years old.

I´ll put them both at "roughly" then. Will probably have to recheck that branch of the Frey tree then. Won't be happening this week, I'm afraid. Busy at work :)

Couldn't Alerie also have been born in 256 AC, just later in the year than Mace?

Should it have been a description of two characters stating "he's older than me" (envision Big and Little Walder here with their "he's 52 days older than me" phrases), then yes. But if Alerie and Mace had been born in the same year, despite a difference of weeks or months, I doubt that anyone would be describing Alerie as "younger than Mace, and thus likely to outlive him". Which is why I used a difference of minimally a year, at such occasions.

It's a historical work, so the third rule applies.

Correct.

If Alysanne can also be a few years older than Asha, she could also have been born before 275 AC.

Or even a year or two earlier?

I know it's highly unlikely, but couldn't Perwyn also have been conceived on the last day of the second month in 278 AC, so he was born on the last day of 278? If Alyssa died on the first day of 278 and Sarya died immediatley after her wedding, everything could have occured in 278 AC - in theory at least.

A pregnancy of 10 months is indeed unlikely :) I suppose you mean the last day of the third month :) But yeah, in theory, this is possible. Will adjust

Maybe Jaime misjudged her, because she looks older than she actually is? So it would still be possible that she was born in 283 AC.

Until we get evidence that suggests otherwise, Jaime's opinion is kept the way it is, I think..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Update time! :)



Not so much here.. I edited Tygett in, due to the new sample released on GRRM's website.


From the new sample chapter from Winds, I added Roland Waynwood, Wallace Waynwood, Alys Stone and Uther Shett.



Ronnel and Alys Arryn have been added as well, though both have a rather big age range.. Alys has a range of 31 years, Ronnel of 44.



As to the Starks.. I have them written, but not yet edited in.. For the Starks, they are either "X was born in year Z or before", "X was born in year Z or after", or "X was born in or between year Y and year Z", with that range being usually around 60 years..



With a range so big, I was wondering whether it would be wise to edit them all in.. I could post them all here first, so you guys can look them over?



Let me know what ya'll think!


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Rhaenys,



Fellow history date freak here. Very much appreciate your tireless work on the timeline project.



Was going through Aerys II's chapter in TWOIAF to verify the birth years of Brandon, Ned and Bobby B and found this snippet:




The scurrilous rumor that Joanna Lannister gave up her maidenhead to Prince Aerys the night of his father’s coronation and enjoyed a brief reign as his paramour after he ascended the Iron Throne can safely be discounted. As Pycelle insists in his letters, Tywin Lannister would scarce have taken his cousin to wife if that had been true, “for he was ever a proud man and not one accustomed to feasting upon another man’s leavings.”




On Joanna Lannister's AWOIAF page, the probable years for her birth are 245 to 250 AC. I know you've mentioned in your calculation page that it would seem implausible that she would be born in 250 AC yet have kept the window till that year.



I would rather argue that for a rumour to be propagated, it must have a semblance of reality. And since this rumour is from a relatively recent period in history, we can be assured that Maester Yandel (an in-world figure) wouldn't write it unless there were people who must have supposed the rumour to be true. The ultimate point is that Joanna's age would have to be reflective of the fact that she were old enough to lose her maidenhead in 259 AC.



So while I completely agree that the left extreme should be 245 AC, I feel that the other extreme should be at the most, 247 AC (if not 246 AC, as per Rule #1 I guess).



Keep up the good work otherwise :)


Edited by Prince Baelon Targaryen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Rhaenys,

Fellow history date freak here. Very much appreciate your tireless work on the timeline project.

Was going through Aerys II's chapter in TWOIAF to verify the birth years of Brandon, Ned and Bobby B and found this snippet:

On Joanna Lannister's AWOIAF page, the probable years for her birth are 245 to 250 AC. I know you've mentioned in your calculation page that it would seem implausible that she would be born in 250 AC yet have kept the window till that year.

I would rather argue that for a rumour to be propagated, it must have a semblance of reality. And since this rumour is from a relatively recent period in history, we can be assured that Maester Yandel (an in-world figure) wouldn't write it unless there were people who must have supposed the rumour to be true. The ultimate point is that Joanna's age would have to be reflective of the fact that she were old enough to lose her maidenhead in 259 AC.

So while I completely agree that the left extreme should be 245 AC, I feel that the other extreme should be at the most, 247 AC (if not 246 AC, as per Rule #1 I guess).

Keep up the good work otherwise :)

I am so very sorry it took me so long to respond!! :blushing:

I've considered doing that, but in the end, that would mean that the age of 13 becomes the age for girls being sexually active, and we know that is not the case in Westeros. Cersei and Jaime, for example, were much younger, and

Mercy, initiating a sexual encounter, was 12

Which is why I did not feel secure enough to say that Joanna would have been at least 13 years old in 259 AC. I agree that Joanna was born most likely towards the start of her range, and not towards its end, but we can't say with certainty.

Aerys was only 15 years old in 259 AC. Joanna could have been younger than 13. An age of 9 definitly sounds highly unlikely when it concerns a 15 year old boy, but 12 might still be possible, for example.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How exactly did you calculate the year of death of Urrigon Greyjoy? I guess it has something to do with Quellon's death and Balon killing the maester and so on, but I can't really figure it out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Urrigon was 14 when his brothers were off at war and his hand got taken off by the axe according to The ProphetThe World of Ice and Fire later tells us this was Robert's Rebellion, which ended in 283 AC, and that the brothers and their father only went off to war in the late stages of the war, in 283 AC. Hence, when Urrigon got hurt, it would have been 283 AC.

So Urri was 14 in  283 AC, leaving him only two options of being born. 268 or 269 AC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alright, now I see. But that means that the first possible date for Aeron's birth is 269 AC and not 270 AC, doesn't it?

Ah, yes it does! Aeron could potentially turn 14 later that year, making 269 AC his first option. Thank you for noticing that one, I will correct it :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I mentioned this before, but I'm not really sure about Alysane Mormont being younger than Asha.

Her proper name was Alysane of House Mormont, but she wore the other name as easily as she wore her mail. Short, chunky, muscular, the heir to Bear Island had big thighs, big breasts, and big hands ridged with callus. Even in sleep she wore ringmail under her furs, boiled leather under that, and an old sheepskin under the leather, turned inside out for warmth. All those layers made her look almost as wide as she was tall. And ferocious. Sometimes it was hard for Asha Greyjoy to remember that she and the She-Bear were almost of an age.

I read this like "Alysane seems to be really hard and so on, so she looks much older than Asha, but she isn't" (just a little bit). Because if Asha was older, I would expect a statement like "... it was hard for Asha Greyjoy to remember that she was even older than the She-Baer".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I mentioned this before, but I'm not really sure about Alysane Mormont being younger than Asha.

I read this like "Alysane seems to be really hard and so on, so she looks much older than Asha, but she isn't" (just a little bit). Because if Asha was older, I would expect a statement like "... it was hard for Asha Greyjoy to remember that she was even older than the She-Baer".

What do you suggest instead of the calculation we have now?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I would change the first possible year of Alysane's birth to 273 AC and keep the last possible option.

Got it ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now