People who don't care about "The Big Four"?

[LordStoneheart]

But I love their chapters post-Storm...

[The Onion Sleight]

When it comes to measuring POV characters against each other (whether Big 4, Big 6, or Big 12) the following poll may be more relevant, as it measures them directly against each other:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/96872-pov-poll-rooting-for-or-against/page-5

Basically, they ended up ranking as follows:

1. Jon

2. Arya

3. Davos

4. Sansa

5. Bran

6. Brienne

7. Jaime

8. Sam

9. Tyrion

10. Theon

11. Dany

12. Cersei

I am surprised at how low Dany and Tyrion came in the poll.

Ah, thank you! (Didn't knew that poll) Well, don't know if it's surprising for me or not... Although I guess, it isn't coincidence that all Starks(+Jon) and Davos and Brienne (both morally good and really fine characters) are under the first six.

I think, everyone has characters he loves as characters, but their chapters may sometimes be rather boring (e.g. I know many people who say Bran's ones were/are boring, but I know nobody who wants him dead), and on the other I side there are characters you may not like, but you enjoy their POV (Victarion is there an example for me, or also Cersei). Or I love Roose as a character and could read all the time about him - But I definitely don't root for him!

I guess, that effects different polls... I picked the one from Dez 2013 in the first post also because the Top 5 there - Arya, Tyrion, Davos, Jon, Jaime - were the same in big polls I found from 2011 and 2012, these characters just changed their order, but were always the same.

[El Guapo]

I love Daenerys and Tyrion..

Arya is ok. Jon is a complete and total bore.

[Good Guy Garlan]

But I love their chapters post-Storm...

Every rule has some exceptions ;)

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I don't care about Arya. So far, she hasn't done anything relevant.

[jon rhaegar stark]

I like to consider them from an outside perspective. Why do these four specifically have the most chapters? Because the story is about them, no matter how much others may love Stannis, the Greyjoys, or the Tyrells.

In true GRRM style, he gives us just enough of each to love them or hate them. I love Jon, Dany, and Arya, and I'm pretty meh about Tyrion, though I do speak against him when he's being portrayed as "good." I had to rant for awhile to some friends who don't understand why I don't like him all that much because he's the "only good Lannister." Well, first off, there are no good Lannisters. :P No, but really, he falls pretty short of being the "good" one, and perhaps only by default.

I think the reason they're falling out of favor is just hype aversion. They're popular so some want to hate them.

i thought that myself where tyrion is potrayed good comes from...sure he has goodness in him but so does Jon,danny ,robb but i dont see Tyrion getting that much hate as others

but i think lots of that argument is because of Peter Dinklage

[Pod The Impaler]

Well, I wanted to go to extremes to see IF there's ANYONE who thinks so.

I'm sure there is at least one person out there, somewhere.

[The Onion Sleight]

I have never looked at Jon, Tyrion, Dany, or Arya as main characters nor do I care but everybody is central to the story.

I like to consider them from an outside perspective. Why do these four specifically have the most chapters? Because the story is about them, no matter how much others may love Stannis, the Greyjoys, or the Tyrells.

I always had the attitude: They don't have the most chapters, because they are the main characters; they are the main characters, because they have the most chapters.

Clearly, we know them since book 1 and they were always sort of the pillars of the story (especially Tyrion, Jon, Dany, since they were our main windows/eyes to KL, the Wall, Essos), but if it wasn't the Starks + Tyrion + Dany we got as POV since AGOT, I guess, it would look different today and, IMO, is everyone the hero of his/her own story. Even IF these three or four would fulfill all prophecies at the end, save the world, ride dragons and whatever, I'd still have other characters with their own stories and GRRM just decided to tell us rather more of those story than of theirs. But I can do rereads of certain characters through all books very well, even if they have few(er) chapters.

[The Onion Sleight]

I'm sure there is at least one person out there, somewhere.

That's the person I wanted to reach with this thread ;) (out of sheer curiosity)

[Kevvy]

Jon, while around him is interesting, is painful to read. We get that it's tough, shut up and get on with it. R+L=J - who cares? Hey Jon, remember those physco people we taught you that murdered your uncle Brandon and grandpa rickard which led to war and the death of thousands - well guess what, your actually one of them!

Dany, could have won me round had she went to Westeros by now. The suggestion her and Jon will meet, marry, then rule together is my main asoiaf hatred.

Arya, meh... I'll be happy when she becomes Arya again.

[The Dragons Hand]

Generally speaking it's the big three (Dany, Jon, Tyrion) But considering that Arya is beside Dany in the second tier of G.R.R.M's favorite character it's fair to put her along side the others.

I'm interested by every character in the series, some get better moments than others. The fact that Dany is supposed to take half of TWOW to get to Westeros (Apparently she's going Khallasar shopping.) makes me a little miffed. Her "Over-twelve genocide" in Astapor strikes me as questionable to this day. Arya keeps breaking the house of Black and Whites rules so perhaps she'll be able to get out in the world and make some plays, because so far all she really has done is travel to the next great disaster and avoid death. Jon does next to nothing in the first book and how he treated Bowen Marsh (The scum) in a land like Westeros is like asking for a Gregor Clegane way to die. Tyrion's "Imma rape Cersei", "Hey, Aegon, go fuck some shit up, I could use the diversion", "Perhaps I could get a ton of people killed by supporting Myrcella" and "I'm valuable to Illyrio, so open yours legs, bitch" Made me wish he'd lose the remaining 25% of his nose.

You'll find cause to dislike every character in the series without trying, it's just up to you to decide which shades of grey are morally acceptable to you.

[LordStoneheart]

Lord_Takahashi, I don't recall choosing those as my house words... but I love em!!! :D

[The Dragons Hand]

And then on the other side of the equation I like all of these characters a great deal.

But then again, I'm not very hard to please compared to most people.

The only chapters in ASOIAF I ever dreaded reading where Brienne's AFFC ones because a lot of them were fucking pointless.

[Kyoshi]

dp

[Kyoshi]

Generally speaking it's the big three (Dany, Jon, Tyrion) But considering that Arya is beside Dany in the second tier of G.R.R.M's favorite character it's fair to put her along side the others.

I'm interested by every character in the series, some get better moments than others. The fact that Dany is supposed to take half of TWOW to get to Westeros (Apparently she's going Khallasar shopping.) makes me a little miffed. Her "Over-twelve genocide" in Astapor strikes me as questionable to this day. Arya keeps breaking the house of Black and Whites rules so perhaps she'll be able to get out in the world and make some plays, because so far all she really has done is travel to the next great disaster and avoid death. Jon does next to nothing in the first book and how he treated Bowen Marsh (The scum) in a land like Westeros is like asking for a Gregor Clegane way to die. Tyrion's "Imma rape Cersei", "Hey, Aegon, go fuck some shit up, I could use the diversion", "Perhaps I could get a ton of people killed by supporting Myrcella" and "I'm valuable to Illyrio, so open yours legs, bitch" Made me wish he'd lose the remaining 25% of his nose.

You'll find cause to dislike every character in the series without trying, it's just up to you to decide which shades of grey are morally acceptable to you.

:agree:

[daggerseiuri]

I just want to ask if here are some persons who say about themselves that they don't care about

Tyrion, Dany, Jon and Arya?

I picked them because, well, I guess these are very likely the most prominent and famous characters, whose with the most POV chapters and they are actually the most time very beloved (besides Dany who's polarizing and divisive).

They were also all under the Top 10 in the last big poll on this forum (http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/100822-poll-favourite-character-results/), but are there guys who are not interested in them / don't care about them / don't like them / maybe even hate them all?

We know they'll likely/certainly play big roles in the future and get again more page-time in the next books (as they always got), but more presence doesn't automatically makes more love, I guess.

(I don't ask for "Well, they are not my (most) favourites, but I still like them", I really ask for disinterest / dislike. And it doesn't count, if it's just one or two of them for you, I ask for at least three or better all four!)

Anyone?

I love your name firstly. Secondly, I hate Jon. He bores me. When I read Jon's chapters, I feel like I accidentally picked up a Terry Brooks novel. I honestly hope he's actually dead forever. It's so weird, because George's favorite characters are like Tyrion and Dany and they're both rather gray, but then you have Jon, who also gets a lot of chapters and is a cliche.

I mean, he's an outcast who has to prove himself and through his own pluck, luck, and apparently inherent charisma (in story) rises waaaaaaaay above his rank and experience level to be the Lord Commander of the Watch. I've compared it to how you always become the Chosen One and/or supreme ruler of every faction/guild/club you join in Skyrim even though the people don't know you and you're wildly unqualified.

He's a big old Gary Stu, complete with teen angst and entitlement issues (see the chapter where he gets longclaw and is all bouboun about how it's not as good as Ice).

[Kyoshi]

I love your name firstly. Secondly, I hate Jon. He bores me. When I read Jon's chapters, I feel like I accidentally picked up a Terry Brooks novel. I honestly hope he's actually dead forever. It's so weird, because George's favorite characters are like Tyrion and Dany and they're both rather gray, but then you have Jon, who also gets a lot of chapters and is a cliche.

I mean, he's an outcast who has to prove himself and through his own pluck, luck, and apparently inherent charisma (in story) rises waaaaaaaay above his rank and experience level to be the Lord Commander of the Watch. I've compared it to how you always become the Chosen One and/or supreme ruler of every faction/guild/club you join in Skyrim even though the people don't know you and you're wildly unqualified.

He's a big old Gary Stu, complete with teen angst and entitlement issues (see the chapter where he gets longclaw and is all bouboun about how it's not as good as Ice).

I'm one of those who subscribe to the theory that supernatural powers were at play in terms of Jon's rise. Every Stark that's manned the wall has risen to the rank of Lord Commander. Wasn't possible with Benjen because he is MIA. Jon isn't even the youngest LC there ever was, not even in the top 5 if I remember correctly.

Hating Jon because of the plot armour provided by GRRM just seems, for lack of a better word, lazy. I mean no offence in that. It's like people who hate Dany because she has dragons and 'she doesn't deserve the'. Him boring you makes more sense as a reason to hate him.

I personally love Jon, he's my favourite, followed very closely by Dany. Arya is also in my top 5.

Jon Con's Red Beard said this nicely in another thread: there is growing interest in villains were stories are concerned. People like them purely for the sake of being more 'interesting'. The good guys are now suddenly cliches because people want moral grayness in EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER. Just like having good and then bad characters only is boring, moral grayness in every single person also gets old and boring and pretty soon it becomes a trope in itself. Characters like Jon are absolutely necessary, like Davos.

It always shocks me when people hate Jon because he is 'perfect' yet will like someone like Litllefinger and Roose/Tywin/Cersei because they are 'badass'.

[Pod The Impaler]

Jon Con's Red Beard said this nicely in another thread: there is growing interest in villains were stories are concerned. People like them purely for the sake of being more 'interesting'. The good guys are now suddenly cliches because people want moral grayness in EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER. Just like having good and then bad characters only is boring, moral grayness in every single person also gets old and boring and pretty soon it becomes a trope in itself. Characters like Jon are absolutely necessary, like Davos.

:agree: Yup, are they not the exception to the rule ?

[The Wolves]

I love your name firstly. Secondly, I hate Jon. He bores me. When I read Jon's chapters, I feel like I accidentally picked up a Terry Brooks novel. I honestly hope he's actually dead forever. It's so weird, because George's favorite characters are like Tyrion and Dany and they're both rather gray, but then you have Jon, who also gets a lot of chapters and is a cliche.

I mean, he's an outcast who has to prove himself and through his own pluck, luck, and apparently inherent charisma (in story) rises waaaaaaaay above his rank and experience level to be the Lord Commander of the Watch. I've compared it to how you always become the Chosen One and/or supreme ruler of every faction/guild/club you join in Skyrim even though the people don't know you and you're wildly unqualified.

He's a big old Gary Stu, complete with teen angst and entitlement issues (see the chapter where he gets longclaw and is all bouboun about how it's not as good as Ice).

I don't see why it bothers people that Jon isn't as "grey" as other characters. In a book where everybody have done terrible, horrible things it's nice to see a character not be in that category. Many of GRRM's characters are a cliche.

Jon is not the only outcast, there's also Tyrion, Dany, Arya, The Hound, Varys, etc...... How does Jon rise waaaaaaaaaay above his rank? Bastards have been known to be Lord Commanders. And Jon has no charisma at all.

Also Jon just got stabbed for trying to leave his post to fight a battle he has no right to fight, he was also about to drag a bunch of men on a suicide mission, than he involves the Watch into politics he's far from a Gary Stu.

Who doesn't have angst in these books and entitlement issues? Have you read Dany, Tyrion, Stannis, Cersei speak about what they think is theirs' by right?

[daggerseiuri]

I'm one of those who subscribe to the theory that supernatural powers were at play in terms of Jon's rise. Every Stark that's manned the wall has risen to the rank of Lord Commander. Wasn't possible with Benjen because he is MIA. Jon isn't even the youngest LC there ever was, not even in the top 5 if I remember correctly.

Hating Jon because of the plot armour provided by GRRM just seems, for lack of a better word, lazy. I mean no offence in that. Him boring you makes more sense as a reason to hate him.

I personally love Jon, he's my favourite, followed very closely by Dany. Arya is also in my top 5.

Jon Con's Red Beard said this nicely in another thread: there is growing interest in villains were stories are concerned. People like them purely for the sake of being more 'interesting'. The good guys are now suddenly cliches because people want moral grayness in EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER. Just like having good and then bad characters only is boring, moral grayness in every single person also gets old and boring and pretty soon it becomes a trope in itself. Characters like Jon are absolutely necessary, like Davos.

It always shocks me when people hate Jon because he is 'perfect' yet will like someone like Litllefinger and Roose/Tywin/Cersei because they are 'badass'.

No, no. I don't like the bad guys just because they're "interesting" (read: crazy). I dunno. I think there's always those characters you don't like. The first time I read it, with the exception of his wildling time, his chapters made me roll my eyes so hard I thought they'd fall out of my head. He's at that point in his life that I'll call "Order of the Phoenix", in that he's so angsty and trying so hard to be a grown up that he spends most of his time pouting.

Not that there's anything wrong with liking Jon. I just don't.