jon rhaegar stark Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Point taken, but I think most of Stannis' strength is now drawn from what few kingsmen he has left, the current Mormonts, Glovers, NMCs, and Umbers. Wasn't most of House Florent's strength with that florent who ordered his fleet extra crispy? Anyway. I just think losing the Florents wouldn't be that big a loss, also they don't really have anyone else to go to. Aside from Selsye they seem to be motivated more by politics than faith. i didnt know they were considered as Kings men Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jankmaster Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 i didnt know they were considered as Kings men that was supposed to be a breakdown list, I hate grammar It would read kingsmen + North + Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryden Tully Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Yeah I see the queens' men being a very big risk to Stannis, it seems bordering on treasonous to have such a large retinue devoted to a priest and your wife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon rhaegar stark Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 that was supposed to be a breakdown list, I hate grammar It would read kingsmen + North + hmmm...if i were stannis i wouldnt consider the North as his own .....sure they can follow him if Davos bring rickon and free Arya but will never be his men Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jankmaster Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 hmmm...if i were stannis i wouldnt consider the North as his own .....sure they can follow him if Davos bring rickon and free Arya but will never be his men Well the guy who pushed the independent north is currently in the Twins, and I'm not sure how much hype there was from any of the other houses. I know that the families of the north are extremely devoted to the starks, but I doubt the north would repay Stannis fighting the Boltons by leaving him out to dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon rhaegar stark Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Well the guy who pushed the independent north is currently in the Twins, and I'm not sure how much hype there was from any of the other houses. I know that the families of the north are extremely devoted to the starks, but I doubt the north would repay Stannis fighting the Boltons by leaving him out to dry. i dont think they will leave him either ...but there is a matter of Robb's will and how that will play out by the northeners and as far as i know the Mormonts never declared for Stannis ...did they declare i might have overlooked that one so only real strength remains with Manderly and Umbers and you know how they are and what they want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jankmaster Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 After Stannis retook deepwood motte Alysanne Mormont led a contingent of men to join Stannis. Last I checked the forces are his crownlanders, his allies are again the NMCs (flints, wulls,) House Glover, House Mormont, and half of Umber's strength. the loyalty of Roose's forces' is also very suspect and I think the Freys and Bolton's aren't going to deal any sort of major defeat to the Mannis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted July 11, 2014 Author Share Posted July 11, 2014 Melisandre abandoning him would be my guess. She will figure out he's not AA and move on to the real one.Without her and the queens men I expect his number will finally be up.That scenario sounds interesting. I'd gladly wear one. Maybe I could get it personalized with my family name, arms, and a snazzy motto like- "Reading Comprehension".Get me one, as well :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epyon Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Stannis will bend the knee to Jon "Snow" Targaryan, or Stannis will be killed off. As far as the actual "breaking point"? If Stannis bends the knee....Jon is recognized as John Targaryan, as well as AAR/TPTWP, and basically wins the war against the others, thus, even in Stannis' eyes, Jon will rightfully"save the kingdom to win the throne". If he does die, I don't see it being at a Bolton hand. I think he crushes the Boltons, and makes his way back to the wall as the White Walker army comes in. I think the wall will be destroyed sometime during the battle, and Stannis will be crushed under it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bog Devil of Greywater Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 i dont think they will leave him either ...but there is a matter of Robb's will and how that will play out by the northeners and as far as i know the Mormonts never declared for Stannis ...did they declare i might have overlooked that one so only real strength remains with Manderly and Umbers and you know how they are and what they want Only the largely disgraced Karstarks (who are set to betray him), the Glovers, half of the Umbers (who refuse to fight the other half) and the Mountain Clans have officially declared for Stannis. One of the Mormont girls, Alysane and a handful of Mormont men participated in trapping Asha Greyjoy's men in the North by hiding in fishing boats and burning Ashas' ships, and she is currently traveling with Stannis, but the Mormonts have not declared for Stannis. Nor have the Manderlys. Both Mormont and Manderly have made it known to Davos and Stannis that they will only rise for him provided they have a Stark as their liege lord. Stannis is not aware of Davos' mission to Skagos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon rhaegar stark Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Only the largely disgraced Karstarks (who are set to betray him), the Glovers, half of the Umbers (who refuse to fight the other half) and the Mountain Clans have officially declared for Stannis. One of the Mormont girls, Alysane and a handful of Mormont men participated in trapping Asha Greyjoy's men in the North by hiding in fishing boats and burning Ashas' ships, and she is currently traveling with Stannis, but the Mormonts have not declared for Stannis. Nor have the Manderlys. Both Mormont and Manderly have made it known to Davos and Stannis that they will only rise for him provided they have a Stark as their liege lord. Stannis is not aware of Davos' mission to Skagos. but i think unlike Robb Stannis is holding the karstarks as prisoners so they will fight with him and i think the Umbers have lost most of theirs in the war of five kings and now as an army of boys outside ....and mountain clans are total of 300 i think....glovers are defeated by Asha and they will have less numbers so i think its only Manderly who has any real strength now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bog Devil of Greywater Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 but i think unlike Robb Stannis is holding the karstarks as prisoners so they will fight with him and i think the Umbers have lost most of theirs in the war of five kings and now as an army of boys outside ....and mountain clans are total of 300 i think....glovers are defeated by Asha and they will have less numbers so i think its only Manderly who has any real strength now House Reed has the vast majority of it's strength left also, but it's not comparable to Manderly with his knights and ships. The Reed forces proved they can more than hold their own against the Ironborn, but not so much as conventional fighters that Stannis would be looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryden Tully Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 I saw a thread saying that Manderly could easily have about 6000-8000 men which includes heavy mounted cavarly and southron knights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Onion Sleight Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 For the guys who are talking about his strength:- Don't forget the Iron Bank of Braavos on his side!- About king's men and queen's men:Jon says in ADWD that he always just sees queen's men with Stannis, during meetings or while making plans (the usual suspects: Horpe, Massey, Farring, Suggs, aso.) and that he heard the king's men incurred his wrath on Dragonstone, I guess, a large part (the most?) of them is/was still there (e.g. his castellan Rolland Storm who defended it against Loras' men) and others accompanied Edric Strom to Essos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon rhaegar stark Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 House Reed has the vast majority of it's strength left also, but it's not comparable to Manderly with his knights and ships. The Reed forces proved they can more than hold their own against the Ironborn, but not so much as conventional fighters that Stannis would be looking for. House Reed is not known for their skills at war and their strength of having an army ...i think there is qoute that manderly explains his strength to Davos ..so i will try to take that about the Iron Bank yes he has them but they can change sides ...he sends massey to get more sellswords for him with the money he got from them .....so surely he is lacking numbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 For the guys who are talking about his strength:- Don't forget the Iron Bank of Braavos on his side!All that really means is the ability to buy sellswords. And with the best sellsword company in the world currently in the Stormlands taking Stannis' shit, and a lot of the other companies being tied up in the battle for Meereen he's going to have slim pickings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hodorisfaclessman Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 losing shireen, i think stannis can take literaly every shitty hand hes dealt but secretly (the show seems to hint at this more than books) he utterly adores his little girl , thats the soft part of the man of iron and her being killed will be more than he can cope with.The northmen abandon him ...fine hes got ironborn mercs on the wayhes not the choosen one...cool book stannis doesnt give a shit about any religious stuff anywaydany arrives with dragons...fine bring those fuckers onmel abandons him.....whatever , book stannis isnt the lovestruck puppy tv stannis iswhite walkers arrive...cool hes already accepted them as the true enemy to all of westeros anywaybut finding patchface or mel or selyse has killed shireen will break him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bog Devil of Greywater Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 House Reed is not known for their skills at war and their strength of having an army ...i think there is qoute that manderly explains his strength to Davos ..so i will try to take that about the Iron Bank yes he has them but they can change sides ...he sends massey to get more sellswords for him with the money he got from them .....so surely he is lacking numbers Don't underestimate their ability as scouts and screeners. Robbs' victories in the Riverlands and the West were largely to do with the quality of his scouts under Blackfish. Stannis is shown to be just as good of a commander as Blackfish, so if given a force like the Reeds, he'd surely be able to employ them just as effectively. For the guys who are talking about his strength:- Don't forget the Iron Bank of Braavos on his side!- About king's men and queen's men:Jon says in ADWD that he always just sees queen's men with Stannis, during meetings or while making plans (the usual suspects: Horpe, Massey, Farring, Suggs, aso.) and that he heard the king's men incurred his wrath on Dragonstone, I guess, a large part (the most?) of them is/was still there (e.g. his castellan Rolland Storm who defended it against Loras' men) and others accompanied Edric Strom to Essos. The Iron Bank is a good point, and one I wasn't thinking of. I don't know what will be available with Mereen in shambles and the Astapori employing many of what remains of the sellswords in Essos, but perhaps Massey can get him a company or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon rhaegar stark Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Don't underestimate their ability as scouts and screeners. Robbs' victories in the Riverlands and the West were largely to do with the quality of his scouts under Blackfish. Stannis is shown to be just as good of a commander as Blackfish, so if given a force like the Reeds, he'd surely be able to employ them just as effectively. The Iron Bank is a good point, and one I wasn't thinking of. I don't know what will be available with Mereen in shambles and the Astapori employing many of what remains of the sellswords in Essos, but perhaps Massey can get him a company or two. i will never underestimate them but they doesnt have enough strength that is known ..but they are skilled like you said and loyal i wonder there is any companies left for Massey to buy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 i wonder there is any companies left for Massey to buy I'm sure he will find some, but we know a lot of them are already tied up. WoW sample We learn that Daenerys now has the Windblown, along with the Second Sons, and the Storm Crows. And of course Aegon has the Golden Company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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