What will break Stannis?

[Tywin Smokin a Blunt]

Maybe I'm a bit biased by the show, but I think it could be Shireen. If Mel or Selyse try to hurt her, he might not taking it very well...

I definitely think you're right about the show, the books im not so sure though

[Tywin Smokin a Blunt]

I gotta imagine it's going to be when Melisandre abandons his cause, or something she does causes him to lose all faith in her.

[FireIsMyChampion]

Wait what why would he not have a claim? Is he going to cease being a Baratheon in the next book?

Hes lost Dragonstone to the Tyrell/Lannisters and the Storm Lands arn't going to be under his control either.

[BastardlyRock]

I don't know.... Stannis is a rock... I just don't see him breaking. Pretty much any scenario I play out in my head I still see him plowing on. There are things that could hurt him, physically and mentally, but I don't see anything breaking the man. :dunno:

[-Winterfellian-]

I think people see the word bend and assume it coulld only mean submitting to others or accepting other people's advice. The truth is that while Stannis does "bend" is usually when it is something that will further his own aspirarions or what he believs is due to him. Laws can become more accomodating when the gain is the IT for himself; accepting Jon's advice was in service of strenghtening his position in the North; "saving the realm" is seen as a stepping stone to gaining the throne, etc

But what will happen when/if he is asked to give up his claim or what he believes is due to him and rightully deserved? What if the good of the Realm demands that he steps aside either because he's not AA or simply not capable to be the leader that is needed either by his lack or qualifications or because other leaders have emerged whom people prefer over him. In Stannis mind I do not think this situations can trump over his rights and claims. Add to that all that he has "sacrificed" if this happens I can definetely see him breaking and breaking hard

[BastardlyRock]

I think people see the word bend and assume it coulld only mean submitting to others or accepting other people's advice. The truth is that while Stannis does "bend" is usually when it is something that will further his own aspirarions or what he believs is due to him. Laws can become more accomodating when the gain is the IT for himself; accepting Jon's advice was in service of strenghtening his position in the North; "saving the realm" is seen as a stepping stone to gaining the throne, etc

But what will happen when/if he is asked to give up his claim or what he believes is due to him and rightully deserved? What if the good of the Realm demands that he steps aside either because he's not AA or simply not capable to be the leader that is needed either by his lack or qualifications or because other leaders have emerged whom people prefer over him. In Stannis mind I do not think this situations can trump over his rights and claims. Add to that all that he has "sacrificed" if this happens I can definetely see him breaking and breaking hard

I guess what I'm saying is that in this type of scenario I see him going out with a sword in his hand/assassinated rather than bending the knee or becoming anyone's subservient lord. I agree I don't see him taking it lightly if someone or something threatens his claim.

[Ygrain]

Renly ran away when things started to look tough? He stayed with Robert until his very death, if that makes him a coward, I don't know what it makes Stannis who fled considerably earlier. He only fled after everything was lost and Eddard refused to do the only sensible thing.

How is the plan to marry Marge to Robert a bad thing?

And as far as he (and most everyone else) was concerned, Stannis had no more right to the Throne than him, he was simply dislodging the abusive Lannister-backed regime of Joffrey, like he says, just like Robert did.

As for the Tyrells being "the new Lannisters" that's utter bull, the Tyrells had a good relationship with Renly while the Lannisters and Robert were always somewhat antagonistic, thus a Tyrell-backed regime would have less internal strife, which is what made Robert's reign so terrible to begin with.

And as for never being a threat to anything, tell that to Cat, Tyrion, and Cersei, who are all terrified of him and his army, to the point where Cersei and Tyrion share a genuine moment of shared happiness when they learn Renly has been delayed by Stannis.

The Queen of Thorn having a negative opinion of someone isn't exactly something that's unheard of. She thinks lowly of pretty everyone, so I wouldn't consider her opinion proof of Renly's worthlessness.

And Mace, who was also said to love him, and Brienne, and Penrose, and all of Stannis's soldiers who decided to turn their cloaks when they saw his ghost on the Blackwater.

And what did he do to help Robert? What was his staying with him worth? And who did Stannis abandon at the moment when he was needed most, huh? Apples and pears, really.

Because marrying a young girl to a fat manwhore old enough to be her father is such a grand thing, not to mention that the plan was to make Robert lust after her because she resembles his long-lost love, and that all in the name of a Tyrell powergrab. Really classy.

Are you sure you read the books? Stannis is Robert's heir because he is older.

Lannisters are a wealthy family who managed to rise very high in the realm because they put their prize daughter in the king's marital bed. Now, remind me again what it is that the Tyrells are doing right now? Putting their prize daughter in the king's marital bed because...?

Can you point me those lines where Renly is described as feared or formidable or anything, by himself? Everyone is concerned with his whole army, and what is Renly doing while marching? Lavish show-off.

Can you show me where QoT thinks negatively of the qualities of men who have proved themselves, such as Tywin? She criticises the Lannister pride, but I don't recall her thinking that Tywin was stupid.

I concede that his charm won him a lot of support that he was totally undeserving of, as we can see when Loras quotes his opinion about Brienne.

[E-Ro]

Hes lost Dragonstone to the Tyrell/Lannisters and the Storm Lands arn't going to be under his control either.

hahahahahaha, what does that have to do with what I posted though? His claim still exists even without any of that.

Gotta be honest, you're even less funny as FireIsMyChampion as you were as Darsh Arya brah brah.

[Sullen]

And what did he do to help Robert? What was his staying with him worth? And who did Stannis abandon at the moment when he was needed most, huh? Apples and pears, really.

He tried to replace the Lannisters with the more agreeable Tyrells, and he stayed with his brother until his last moments because that's what brothers do. As for Stannis, it could be said he abandoned Robert as soon as things started to look sour.

Because marrying a young girl to a fat manwhore old enough to be her father is such a grand thing, not to mention that the plan was to make Robert lust after her because she resembles his long-lost love, and that all in the name of a Tyrell powergrab. Really classy.

If she is willing, who are we to judge? And it's not only in the name of giving the Tyrells more power, it's more importantly to reduce Lannister influence.

Are you sure you read the books? Stannis is Robert's heir because he is older.

Stannis is not Robert's heir in the eyes of anyone but Stannis and his few followers. Joffrey is the heir, and Tommen after him.

Remember, Stannis has no proof of the incest, why should Renly believe what seems to be an obvious self-serving lie?

Can you point me those lines where Renly is described as feared or formidable or anything, by himself? Everyone is concerned with his whole army, and what is Renly doing while marching? Lavish show-off.

Read ACoK Tyrion VI, Renly is seen as a serious threat.

And that "show-off" is not lavish, it's a strategy and a brilliant one at that. He allows both of his opponents to wear themselves off while keeping the morale of his men up. Not to mention that the more he waits, the more King's Landing grows discontent due to the closing of the Rose Road, and the more he looks like a hero when he takes King's Landing.

You seem to have trouble grasping the importance of PR.

Can you show me where QoT thinks negatively of the qualities of men who have proved themselves, such as Tywin? She criticises the Lannister pride, but I don't recall her thinking that Tywin was stupid.

Can you show me where she thinks positively of anyone?

I concede that his charm won him a lot of support that he was totally undeserving of, as we can see when Loras quotes his opinion about Brienne.

Even with him calling her grotesque behind her back, Renly treated Brienne better than anyone in the series did. He honoured her and treated her like a proper lady, which is more than anyone ever did.

[Batbob45]

Renly was not Threat, The Tyrells were the real threat in the camp.

[James Arryn]

I will break Stannis.

Shall I begin?

[Batbob45]

Go luck DonDiegoBane

in trying to break

BatStannis

[Sullen]

Renly was not Threat, The Tyrells were the real threat in the camp.

And the Tyrells backed Renly.

By that logic, Robb was not a threat, his bannermen were, Stannis is not a threat, his King's men are, and Tywin was never a threat, his Westermen (and his gold) were.

Renly led the Tyrells, it's that simple.

[Julian Rayne]

Only death will break him. And even death may not be enough.

[BastardlyRock]

Only death will break him. And even death may not be enough.

:cheers:

[Fat Mac]

Only death will break him. And even death may not be enough.

Either this, or the death of his daughter. Even Melisandre turning on him I don't think will make him throw in the towel and break down. If anything, that would just strengthen his resolve.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

If Melisandre decides to betray him, he would simply choke her to death and move on.

[Nictarion]

If Melisandre decides to betray him, he would simply choke her to death and move on.

Look what happens to people that try to kill Melisandre so far.

[RoamingRonin]

Only death will break him. And even death may not be enough.

It's like a Clash of Kings never happened to you people. He was smashed on the Blackwater and spent the majority of the next book sucking his thumb on Dragonstone.

[Jasta11]

Is that a serious question? Did you somehow miss her breakdown over Bran's fall, or losing her mind seeing Robb killed? She broke. Very understandably, very humanly, but break she did.

And the ''true steel'' became a fat, wife beating drunk because some hotter guy ran away with a girl he fancied yet had barely even seen. I'm really not sure who was more brittle than the other at all. Almost all the charatcers in the story would have broken if that happened to them, I'm sure of it.

And I'm also really not sure that he was spot on about Renly either. He managed to gather the most powerful army of the story and his plans were fairly clever.

And we know he wasn't spot on for Stannis, since he has made several compromises in the story already.

So yeah, basically IMO Noye was kinda full of himself. The fact he had not even seen the Baratheon brothers in years also doesn't help.