zaphodbrx Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Arthur would try to slash at Robert, then realize that Robert is wearing plate. Arthur would then think "wait wtf? why am I using a sword on a battlefield dominated by plate armored opponents?" before he could Finnish the thought tho roberts hammer would be in his skull. Bull Shit of course. The sword remained the most popular weapon of the knightly classes throughout the middle ages. The longsword was extensively used in the War of the Roses, where Martin draws a lot of his inspiration from. Yes plate armor made weapons like poleaxes and morning star a lot more popular among knights, but the sword was always there as well. And he wouldn't be slashing about wildly, cause he's not an idiot. He would be thrusting it into the gaps in the opponents armor, using pommel strikes, etc. 'Half swording' was also used a lot. That said Robert Baratheon as described in the books is a pretty formidable opponent for almost anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drth Fel Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Is it made out of lasers?Dawn is a lightsaber, and Dayne was the first Jedi... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Voldemort Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Martin himself put Jaime on the TOP. Deal with it. Where? If he did: he has made a huge plot hole, since Jaime in the actual books does really suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Ro Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Swords are not "lol useless" against armored opponents. It's just not true. Slashing (like in the video which was linked in this thread) was only used to cut off limbs or heads if the neck/throat was unprotected. The hammer is an advantage, no doubt, but it doesn't give Robert the win by default.Ummm, yes, swords are for all intents and purposes useless against most forms of armor. Be it mail or plate. Here educate yourself. http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=11131 You simply cannot damage metal armor with a sword, it is not feasible. Your only hope is to attack a joint, and that is very difficult, especially if your enemy does not have to do the same and can attack you with a superior weapon. Bull Shit of course. The sword remained the most popular weapon of the knightly classes throughout the middle ages. The longsword was extensively used in the War of the Roses, where Martin draws a lot of his inspiration from. Yes plate armor made weapons like poleaxes and morning star a lot more popular among knights, but the sword was always there as well. And he wouldn't be slashing about wildly, cause he's not an idiot. He would be thrusting it into the gaps in the opponents armor, using pommel strikes, etc. 'Half swording' was also used a lot. That said Robert Baratheon as described in the books is a pretty formidable opponent for almost anyone.Actually the bullshit is on your end. Swords were never a primary weapon of war, they were historically sidearms in medieval europe. Poleaxs, lances, pikes, and halberds would all have been far more commonly used. Though most people would have a sword on their hip that does not actually mean the sword would be at all used for fighting. Pole weapons dominated the battlefield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Warning Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Bull Shit of course. The sword remained the most popular weapon of the knightly classes throughout the middle ages. The longsword was extensively used in the War of the Roses, where Martin draws a lot of his inspiration from. Yes plate armor made weapons like poleaxes and morning star a lot more popular among knights, but the sword was always there as well. And he wouldn't be slashing about wildly, cause he's not an idiot. He would be thrusting it into the gaps in the opponents armor, using pommel strikes, etc. 'Half swording' was also used a lot. That said Robert Baratheon as described in the books is a pretty formidable opponent for almost anyone.They carried them, they didn't use them to harmlessly bash other knights.Also thrusting with a greatsword at someone in full plate's gaps whilst he has a warhammer, have fun. Harnischfechten techniques from combat manuals are usually longswords and end through grappling. And you can bet they'd use a war hammer if they had one available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphodbrx Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 E-Ro, educate yourself. Swords were used, either with shields or two handed versions at all points in medieval history. In fact it was the classic knightly weapon. Later on when plate became really, really good, then knights began to train with poleaxes and the like, but the sword never became useless, that's just absurd. Mike Loades video series explains the historical used of longsword in the War of the Roses ( Barnes and Towton ). There is another guy scholargladitora on youtube who also explains all about longswords as well as pole weapons, maces, warhammers, and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryanfury Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Hahahahahahaha oh wow this guy ^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fallen Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 ` Who cares what was more popular, we aren't debating about weaponry in the Middle Ages? Was there a Dawn in the Middle Ages? Did knights carry a war hammer that the average man could barely lift off the ground? Robert was big and strong. Dayne was the best swordsman and strong himself; stronger than Jaime, according to Jaime. And he wielded Dawn. If Rhaegar was able to give Robert all he could handle then I imagine the odds are high that Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning, the greatest knight in the realm, could dispatch Robert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingelheim Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Where? If he did: he has made a huge plot hole, since Jaime in the actual books does really suck. http://www.mtv.com/videos/interview/853851/george-rr-martin-plays-grr-vs-jrr.jhtml#id=1694104 At 0:19 , "Jaime Lannister is one of the greatest swordsmen in the HISTORY of Westeros" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greywind93 Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 http://www.mtv.com/videos/interview/853851/george-rr-martin-plays-grr-vs-jrr.jhtml#id=1694104 At 0:19 , "Jaime Lannister is one of the greatest swordsmen in the HISTORY of Westeros" being a great swordsmen against a great all around warrior in full plate who is useing a better weapon won't mean much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingelheim Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 being a great swordsmen against a great all around warrior in full plate who is useing a better weapon won't mean much Um yeah...well for you, but I wasn't even talking about that. Lord Voldemort here said that Jaime sucked; I just told him that even Martin considers him one of the best ever. EVER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyBanana Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Ummm, yes, swords are for all intents and purposes useless against most forms of armor. Be it mail or plate.Here educate yourself. http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=11131 You simply cannot damage metal armor with a sword, it is not feasible. Your only hope is to attack a joint, and that is very difficult, especially if your enemy does not have to do the same and can attack you with a superior weapon.Actually the bullshit is on your end. Swords were never a primary weapon of war, they were historically sidearms in medieval europe. Poleaxs, lances, pikes, and halberds would all have been far more commonly used. Though most people would have a sword on their hip that does not actually mean the sword would be at all used for fighting. Pole weapons dominated the battlefield. Ugh. You're obviously not going to slash or thrust at the plate armor and no, hitting weakspots, especially with a quick and balanced longsword is not very difficult, but requires some training, of course. That's why swordsmanship was something you'd train your whole life and most other weapons were neglected (with manuals for example) as they were far easier to learn and use. Most hobby experts often forget the stamina, balance and exposure issues of maces, axes, and hammers. You don't need to really swing with a sword, you do need to with the aforementioned weapons. It takes more strength, more time, and it leaves you (even with a shield) more exposed to attacks. It means you need to be both faster and stronger than your opponent if he uses a sword. That drains your stamina. Let's get to the damage. Yes, those weapons are more likely to dent or penetrate (with spikes only though) plate. But you know what those weapons can't do? Cause bleeding wounds in less protected/unprotected areas. That's what everybody loves to ignore, the actual damage to the enemy. A few successful hits with a mace or hammer can do the job, but can also leave your oppenent just bruised or with a few broken bones. However, those small joints and other weak spots which will guarantee your enemy's death/incapacitation, are only going to be penetrated by a thrusting weapon (and yes, in later medieval warfare there were better weapons for that than swords). Again, the hammer is the superior weapon when both fighters are in plate. It still doesn't mean the sword would be useless. That's a silly statement and you know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadwood Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 The hammer user wouldn't need to be faster automatically because he uses a hammer, but being faster helps everyone. You make a lot of good points, but a hammer can also be shunted and not just swung, I'm a sure a strong fighter who uses a hammer has different attacks to utilise.Also spikes are not necessarily required to penetrate, possibly not even ridges. Maces are restricted to five ridges and 1kg on full contact mediaeval fighting, even at that weight they penetrate. Weak points can also suffer damage at the hands of smashing weapons.I'm not doing down the sword, no way, I'm just saying that the hammer isn't as one dimensional as it might come across in your post. If I had to rely on these things for my life, I'd have a sword and dagger (or two short blades) on my belt and a hammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyBanana Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 The hammer user wouldn't need to be faster automatically because he uses a hammer, but being faster helps everyone. You make a lot of good points, but a hammer can also be shunted and not just swung, I'm a sure a strong fighter who uses a hammer has different attacks to utilise. Also spikes are not necessarily required to penetrate, possibly not even ridges. Maces are restricted to five ridges and 1kg on full contact mediaeval fighting, even at that weight they penetrate. Weak points can also suffer damage at the hands of smashing weapons. I'm not doing down the sword, no way, I'm just saying that the hammer isn't as one dimensional as it might come across in your post. If I had to rely on these things for my life, I'd have a sword and dagger (or two short blades) on my belt and a hammer. That wasn't my intention. I won't deny (and have written this in every post) that the hammer is actually better than the sword in plate vs plate fights. Just that every weapon has its advantages and drawbacks, they were all used for reasons and none were unbeatable or useless. Another major disadvantage i forgot was the use against shields, especially ones out of soft wood, as you could use them to deliberately trap/catch slashing weapons. Although that's off-topic as Dawn is supposed to be a greatsword. Oh and the point about speed was about exposure. A hammer user would need to use his shield quite heavily or be quicker to attack and withdraw than a sword user. It's the user who needs to be quicker and more efficient/smarter, not the actual attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnViserion Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Robert was very deadly with that war hammer y'all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnViserion Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Um yeah...well for you, but I wasn't even talking about that. Lord Voldemort here said that Jaime sucked; I just told him that even Martin considers him one of the best ever. EVER. :cheers: It baffles me when people don't wanna give Jaime his due when it comes to combat. He was one of the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PirateVergo Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Jaime could cut in half Ned + Benjen + Brandon easily, and then do the same thing to Prime Bob Baratheon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Jaime could cut in half Ned + Benjen + Brandon easily, and then do the same thing to Prime Bob Baratheon. The first three maybe. The last one hell no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Yes, not everyone will have plate. And many that do will not have fully articulated suits of plate(partial plate would be way more common as its cheaper), you are right. But Still, a sword as your primary weapon? Fantasy. Also good luck using a greatsword on horseback.I agree with the last bit too.Words straight from the ignorant.Lol, the image of 2 guys on horseback, one wielding a ginormous war hammer and the other a great sword...galloping around one another in ever widening circles flailing at where they hope the other will be by the time it gets there, potentially decapitating their own mounts with every swing...ok, this is now a scene that must happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordQorgyle Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 In my opinion Jaime would beat Robert in a fight it would be close but the odds are with Lannister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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