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Arya's warging ability


willofDorne

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Kienn

I was responding primarily to your comment that '' Jon wasn't warging anything '' , again IMO all the wolf dreams are the characters warging. As for whether Varamyr's comment on Jon helps anything, it gives us a gauge on Jon's abilities compared to the strongest known Skinchanger within the Wildlings / North of wall. Whereas Arya's story arc gives us the clues through her connection with the cat [ admittedly conscious ] , and Hagon's thoughts that cats are creatures to be avoided, therefore promoting Arya's ability.

They are both obviously powerful Skinchangers, but I feel it is a different way of explaining their arcs. Arya has no Skinchanger to compare her talent, so the cat link was established. Jon has Varamyr, and a prologue POV, so the link was explained. Therefore promoting that they both have '' Strong abilities ''

Your opinion on '' conscious warging '' is a fair point. But I would like to point out that Bran consciously warged a Raven when with The 3 eyed crow, and the storyline has repeated that Jon is reluctant to accept his ability, even with offers of help [ Melissandra ] , so this could explain his lack of conscious warging.

My comments are all based on the kids' current skill/power level regarding skinchanging, based on what has actually been written. You can argue Bran vs Arya, but there's really no basis for the idea that Jon is stronger as he hasn't done anything intentionally yet (whether from denying his own abilities or not).

Also note that skinchanging powers are based around the Old Gods - based around darkness. Bran's powers grew in darkness:

Here in the chill damp darkness of the tomb his third eye had finally opened. He could reach Summer whenever he wanted

And Bloodraven tells him darkness will be his "mother's milk", etc.

Similarly Arya gained control while blind (total darkness). Perhaps Jon will gain control while he recovers from the end of DWD.

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Jon seems to be more conscious of his warging ability, seeing that he has met wargs had conversations with them. So he realizes the possibilities. Arya on the orther hand seems to fall upon this skill by, force of circumstance. I do not know if that makes her skill more adaptable I believe it would place her above rickon, sansa and rob.


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Jon seems to be more conscious of his warging ability, seeing that he has met wargs had conversations with them. So he realizes the possibilities. Arya on the orther hand seems to fall upon this skill by, force of circumstance. I do not know if that makes her skill more adaptable I believe it would place her above rickon, sansa and rob.

It's easily the most impressive. A casual effortless warg that fools a Faceless Man is impressive. Of course, the TV show will probably pretend like it didn't happen.

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She specifically uses the cat to find out who is staging the assaults on her in the Temple during her training as a blind girl. This is how she finally learns it is the KM that sneaks up on her for the stick fights.

There is no evidence in the text that Arya intentionally uses the cat to learn the identity of the KOM. She explicitely thinks that the cat followed her home, not that "she took the cat home" or "made the cat follow her". She developed a strong connection to that cat, probably because Nymeria wasn't around her, so she had the chance to bond with an other animal, and once that bond was established (her cat-dream), the cat started to follow her, sort of, but Arya was never aware of this. She wasn't even aware that she was dreaming of the cat! And when she became blind, and the cat was with her, she started to feel the cat's senses. And when she went home, the cat followed her and happened to be there where Arya was being beaten, and again, she could see whatever happened. No indication that she planned this, she placed the cat in the room and then waited for the right time to warg it. As far as evidence goes, this is exactly the same whatever Jon is doing with Ghost.

And there is one more thing: Is Varamyr the stronger skinchanger, because he managed to force himself upon several animals, on purpose, or is it Jon, who practically "became one" with said animal, without ever forcing himself upon Ghost. Is it the quality or the quantity of skinchanging that counts?

Right now, I see Mormont's Raven, as a possible animal for Jon, as he spends some time with it, however, that bird is probably warged by BR/Bran. But Jon is never around other animals with whom he could start a bond.

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My comments are all based on the kids' current skill/power level regarding skinchanging, based on what has actually been written. You can argue Bran vs Arya, but there's really no basis for the idea that Jon is stronger as he hasn't done anything intentionally yet (whether from denying his own abilities or not).

The one fact we know about this subject is that Jon is a strong Skinchanger, as described by Varamyr. That is in the text.

Arya has shown us some of her skill set, as there is no-one around to reveal this info. SC a cat, when meant to be difficult, makes the reader ponder. But in no way does it confirm a level of ability.

The 'Doing something intentionally' thing is IMO at this point of the story, neither here nor there. It is a product of the characters environment, company and storyline. It would be poor storytelling if they found out about their abilities in the same way. Therefore 'Doing something intentionally' is not a gauge with which to determine someone's ''level'' of ability until they are knowledgeable Wargs/SC. It is their different paths and experiences towards knowledge manifesting within the storyline.

I understand your reasoning, up to this point Arya is kind of 1-0 up with the cat link, and perhaps more open minded. But with the textual evidence stating that Jon is a strong SC, and Arya's ability open to reader interpretation,[ plus lack of her Direwolf ], I'm still leaning towards Jon.

The rest of your post I agree with, and yes, Jon's situation will be discovered very early on in WOW so may shed some light on exactly how powerful he is. :cheers:

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I agree that Varamyr saying Jon is strong doesn't matter in reference to the other Starks as he hasn't met them.



Arya like Bran has moved on to other animals. The others haven't. I think it makes the most sense that she did use the cat on purpose. In AFFC I think it was accidental but in ADWD she already understands warging. We are given hints that she knows because of the snowing in the Riverlands comment and not wanting to tell the KM how she knows. She just doesn't know the word for it but knows her dreams are real. This is just after she uses the cat's eyes to see. It makes more sense that she uses it purposefully since she at the same time finally understood what was going on and it's a better explanation than she just happened to start skinchanging the cat at the exact moment she needed. She also stops skinchanging as soon as she doesn't need to see anymore.


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Oh, and there is an SSM where GRRM said that Bran and Summer have a special relationship in response to their behavior together in comparison to the rest so I would say the closest relationship are between those two not Jon and Ghost. Ghost even goes off on his own and Jon has no idea what he was doing and has never controlled him.


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