most dangerous woman in ASOIAF

[JonSnow4President]

Lyanna Stark started the war that brought down the Tararyens, and she did it without even trying. She gets my vote.

That REALLY depends on your definition of start a war. Personally, I call the start of the war the refusal to turn over Ned/Robert by Arryn, or Aerys' demand to do so.

[the trees have eyes]

While I know your responding to someone who is a bit cracked, I wouldn't say that her dream is more significant because she hasn't heard of AA. She hasn't heard of much really, and she is ignorant to quite a bit for someone so high on themselves and their family.

I think the lesson is not to not to get into character bashing as it will draw a response and derail the thread. Even a small jab at someone is a bad idea unless you are looking for an argument.

Because the question is who is the most dangerous woman. Dany is not dangerous, her dragons are. For sake of argument, let's say a giant krakken emerges from the narrow sea and swallows all three dragons. If you met Dany in an ally, would you be afraid of her? I wouldn't. She has yet to prove that she can fight. She barks orders fairly well, but that isn't exactly dangerous.

I guess some of us isolate the character, and strip away all of the external forces. My choice is based on the characters ability to be a deadly foe without the use of unusual weapons/friends. Sort of having a discussion on boxers. Two men/women who have a specific skill set.

But no one else was

You missed the point. The question isn't who is the most dangerous commander, most dangerous woman with an entourage, etc. It is the most dangerous woman.

That is hardly evidence that DT is dangerous. Just cherry picking.

Typical DT fan, must like dany otherwise your opinion is ridiculous.....

But as usual, it seems on this forum that if you don't idolize Dany people either a) argue that you are essentially an idiot b ) you don't read the books c) or your opinion doesn;t count because Dany isn't involved.

True, but lately I have noticed that if someone mentions anything about Dany, the lid goes off and stupid reigns supreme. Believe me, I know of one poster who is a bit over the top (an anti-Dany person). But because I don;t think Dany is dangerous as a stand alone, suddenly people cannot take that opinion.

True, but again i am looking at the individual and what they can do themselves.

Also....You would think after admitting that if we were discussing power base, etc that Dany would be number 1, people would see that I am making a distinction between two forms. SO there should be no need for the ridiculous rants towards my opinion. It isn't like I argued that regardless of the scenario, Dany is a joke.

Well, this was tough to read. If you try and frame the discussion in a particular way (when no one else is) and adopt an unpopular argument you will get strong disagreement. There isn't really anything to be gained by complaining about it.

[The King in Black]

Thing about daenerys is everything is served to her on a silver platter, nothing so dangerous about her. So arya gets my vote closely followed by briene and melisandre

[RainGhost]

That REALLY depends on your definition of start a war. Personally, I call the start of the war the refusal to turn over Ned/Robert by Arryn, or Aerys' demand to do so.

Now you're just being picky. Rhaegar may have made good plans and politcal alliances to depose his father, who was unworthy to rule and it was all ruined because he couldn't resist the charms of Lyanna and that sparked the whole thing off. I would say that makes her very dangerous.

[JonSnow4President]

Now you're just being picky. Rhaegar may have made good plans and politcal alliances to depose his father, who was unworthy to rule and it was all ruined because he couldn't resist the charms of Lyanna and that sparked the whole thing off. I would say that makes her very dangerous.

Blaming (or crediting) the start of a war on a woman whose disappearance caused the act that caused the act that started the war between third in line at her family at the time she left, and two Lord paramounts against a King is really stretching what it means to start a war.

[jaimecersei]

cersei, arya and dany

[JonisHenryTudor]

I think the lesson is not to not to get into character bashing as it will draw a response and derail the thread. Even a small jab at someone is a bad idea unless you are looking for an argument.

But no one else was

Well, this was tough to read. If you try and frame the discussion in a particular way (when no one else is) and adopt an unpopular argument you will get strong disagreement. There isn't really anything to be gained by complaining about it.

It doesn;t really matter if anybody else was, I am allowed to state my opinion regardless of what anyone else says. By your logic, if someone says green we all have to say green.

As far as criticisms of characters go, well people just need to get over themselves.

[nastydream]

It doesn;t really matter if anybody else was, I am allowed to state my opinion regardless of what anyone else says. By your logic, if someone says green we all have to say green.

As far as criticisms of characters go, well people just need to get over themselves.

yeah yeah it's "your opinion" and all but you're just bashing for the sake of bashing

[Super Daario]

Cersei has been defanged and declawed. She was never sophisticated enough to be the real danger.

I think it's a tie between Lady Nym and Tyene for the most dangerous woman in the realm.

edit: although Cersei DOES have plenty of room left to do some damage, now that Ser Kevan is out of her way...

[l3ol3o]

As of right now I'd say it's a close tie between Dany and Mel.

Dany because she is extremely powerful yet extremely naive. She has a good heart but she is naive and blind to unintended consequences. See slavery which has caused a whole regional war and the death of thousands. She also has 3 dragons and plans on conquering Westeros with an army of slaves, foreigners, sell swords, and dragons. Again the unintended consequences of this are huge and she is completely blind to them.

Mel is also extremely dangerous because she is the power behind Stannis and extremely zealous. I think she can be held responsible for bringing the Lord of Light to Westeros. Meanwhile the Sparrows are mobilizing and the Northmen don't take to kindly to their Gods being burned. I think a religious war is heating up and Mel is right in the center of it. I also think she is wrong with here Stannis is AAR prediction which is dangerous for everyone involved.

[Carey Snow]

Dany killed 163 with a sentence.

With dragons and a very devoted army, Dany is by far the most dangerous woman.

[JonisHenryTudor]

yeah yeah it's "your opinion" and all but you're just bashing for the sake of bashing

First you are obviously taking my comment out of context. I believe I was responding to Nictarion?

I was quoted as saying . "She hasn't heard of much really, and she is ignorant to quite a bit for someone so high on themselves and their family." First don't take things out of context, and read everything i have said. The problem is, I don't like Dany, so people read that and begin making assumptions. Does Dany know the true history of her family? no. She is ignorant of it. Does she know about the WW's? No, or little; therefore she is ignorant of it. If you take that as character bashing, you are far too sensitive.

Everyone is ignorant of something, and yes that includes your beloved queen. The discussion was about dreams and why her dream was more important than Jon's. My point was yes, she didn't hear of the things mentioned, but she is also ignorant of a lot of things. That isn't bashing, that is flat out fact. If someone mentioned that Jon was ignorant of Essos, I would be an idiot to argue that. Jon may have heard things, etc, but in general he doesn't have much of an idea about Essos, therefore Jon is ignorant in those regards. That is not bashing, that is using a perfectly acceptable word to define a character's understanding of the world around them. I don't have a page number, but your beloved queen also mentions that "she is ignorant in the ways of war".....

Also.... If I was here strictly to bash Dany, why would I state over and over that if the discussion is about the most powerful woman in terms of her powerbase, followers, etc that it would be Dany? Does that make any sense? I was also siding with a Dany fan against an individual who constantly presents blind hatred towards the character.... My only point was about her being ignorant of ideas, etc does not make her the chosen one.

As the final words of the bolded go, she holds her family in very high regard and refuses to listen or acknowledge that Ned, and co were justified in doing what they did. So yes, that makes a person very arrogant about themselves and their family, and through that pov she is ignorant of the truth. Unless you can show me where she has taken the time to understand why things occurred, then you have to admit that she is ignorant. Even if you try to push the "she is too busy card" it doesn't change the fact that she is ignorant of the events and therefore building a platform of ideas regarding her family that are quite family twisted.

[nastydream]

First you are obviously taking my comment out of context. I believe I was responding to Nictarion?

I was quoted as saying . "She hasn't heard of much really, and she is ignorant to quite a bit for someone so high on themselves and their family." First don't take things out of context, and read everything i have said. The problem is, I don't like Dany, so people read that and begin making assumptions. Does Dany know the true history of her family? no. She is ignorant of it. Does she know about the WW's? No, or little; therefore she is ignorant of it. If you take that as character bashing, you are far too sensitive.

Everyone is ignorant of something, and yes that includes your beloved queen. The discussion was about dreams and why her dream was more important than Jon's. My point was yes, she didn't hear of the things mentioned, but she is also ignorant of a lot of things. That isn't bashing, that is flat out fact. If someone mentioned that Jon was ignorant of Essos, I would be an idiot to argue that. Jon may have heard things, etc, but in general he doesn't have much of an idea about Essos, therefore Jon is ignorant in those regards. That is not bashing, that is using a perfectly acceptable word to define a character's understanding of the world around them. I don't have a page number, but your beloved queen also mentions that "she is ignorant in the ways of war".....

Also.... If I was here strictly to bash Dany, why would I state over and over that if the discussion is about the most powerful woman in terms of her powerbase, followers, etc that it would be Dany? Does that make any sense? I was also siding with a Dany fan against an individual who constantly presents blind hatred towards the character.... My only point was about her being ignorant of ideas, etc does not make her the chosen one.

As the final words of the bolded go, she holds her family in very high regard and refuses to listen or acknowledge that Ned, and co were justified in doing what they did. So yes, that makes a person very arrogant about themselves and their family, and through that pov she is ignorant of the truth. Unless you can show me where she has taken the time to understand why things occurred, then you have to admit that she is ignorant. Even if you try to push the "she is too busy card" it doesn't change the fact that she is ignorant of the events and therefore building a platform of ideas regarding her family that are quite family twisted.

Typical DT fan, must like dany otherwise your opinion is ridiculous.....

Dany is a joke

Yeah totally not bashing man.

Would you forgive the people that forced you to be sent to exile to live like this?Who killed babies?Of course Ned didn't have part in killing the babies.Yes they were justified to rebel and Dany does know that her father was mad.Anyway this isn't the thread to discuss these things.Dany is dangerous wether ignorant or not.It doesn't matter if you like her.

For example I think Cersei is dangerous and I don't like cersei.

[JonisHenryTudor]

Yeah totally not bashing man.

Would you forgive the people that forced you to be sent to exile to live like this?Who killed babies?Of course Ned didn't have part in killing the babies.Yes they were justified to rebel and Dany does know that her father was mad.Anyway this isn't the thread to discuss these things.Dany is dangerous wether ignorant or not.It doesn't matter if you like her.

For example I think Cersei is dangerous and I don't like cersei.

Apparently you missed the several pages where I wasn't allowed to have an opinion that did not include Dany as the supreme being, which is why I stated the very thing you put in bold. Context please. Don;t just cherry pick comments without context.

I see (in regards to the bold)....perhaps you should read all of my posts and my justifications for choosing the people I have. I also gave credit to DT's power based on a different set of circumstances that I was not using for my analysis. No where did I state that Dany was weak because I hated her, no I simply answered the OP's question from a different pov. In fact, I just got done re-stating that I do think Dany is the most dangerous in terms of collective power base, but not as an individual stripped of everything that makes her powerful. This is a fair assessment, and I was attacked for having it.

[LordStoneheart]

You were attacked for stating there was only one definition of dangerous and Dany doesn't fit it, even though the OP gave five different examples of women who are dangerous for different reasons.

[JonisHenryTudor]

You were attacked for stating there was only one definition of dangerous and Dany doesn't fit it, even though the OP gave five different examples of women who are dangerous for different reasons.

I did not say there was ONE definition. I said it was THE definition I was examining the question from. If that were the case, I would not have admitted that Dany was the most dangerous collectively, which she is at the moment. The OP provided a series of women followed by "?" but doesn't say only this list may be examined. Maybe I am a stickler with language, but the OP is very ambiguous.

My argument was looking at the individual. I don't think Dany is all that dangerous.

Collectively as in her army, dragons, loyalty makes her dangerous.

Two very different approaches, both valid.

For the battle for westeros - Dany verse Cersie or Brienne, or Ayra - Dany wins out hands down

A duel between Brienne and Dany - Dany is done in minutes if not seconds.

[nastydream]

I did not say there was ONE definition. I said it was THE definition I was examining the question from. If that were the case, I would not have admitted that Dany was the most dangerous collectively, which she is at the moment. The OP provided a series of women followed by "?" but doesn't say only this list may be examined. Maybe I am a stickler with language, but the OP is very ambiguous.

My argument was looking at the individual. I don't think Dany is all that dangerous.

Collectively as in her army, dragons, loyalty makes her dangerous.

Two very different approaches, both valid.

For the battle for westeros - Dany verse Cersie or Brienne, or Ayra - Dany wins out hands down

A duel between Brienne and Dany - Dany is done in minutes if not seconds.

Well yeah nobody argues that Dany is a warrior.

[Kyoshi]

^ :rofl: :rofl: @ that Kyoshi :lol:

ETA: And her FANS are the irrational blind one? :lmao:

Kyoshi!

:bowdown: Excellent play, when will your next one come out?

Seriously though, you've described the last year (that's how long I've been on the board) perfectly and concisely.

Hodor=excuse to bash dany

Foreshadowing of Jaime killing ls somehow ends up with people complaining about bans and dany fans :rofl:

The next play is coming out soon...

Anyway, after reading some of these posts I'm now convinced that I have to change my vote from Melisandre to Cersei. Cersei, aided by Varys and LF, is very dangerous. I wonder if that counts against her though, if the danger has to be due to the woman and that woman alone, unaided. That would certainly narrow down the list of candidates.

[LordStoneheart]

You said "Dany is not dangerous," and proceeded to undermine her physical prowess. You said dangerous doesn't include external forces when the OP obviously disagrees with by even putting forth Cersei, Dany, and Olenna as possibilities. \

If you had said "Dany is no warrior, but she is still dangerous" that would've made your point better but instead you decided to go with a narrow view that only a person's physical limitations/strengths qualify them as dangerous. It is only recently that you seem to be acknowledging outside forces and assets as dangerous.

[JonisHenryTudor]

Well yeah nobody argues that Dany is a warrior.

OK which is why I did not include her in my dangerous woman list. So there should have bee no qualms about it. I stripped the characters down to their base. For example, if you don't want to look back, this is what I said. Without the dragons, Dany would not have been able to do much. Her dragons led her to each step, which is fine because they are currently her weapon. BUT if he does not have the dragons, she is not a danger to anyone. Ned makes this point clearly, although I admit I am not arguing from Ned's pov. If Dany were to find herself on the battlefield and needing to defend herself, she isn't that terrible. Her supporters are yes, but not her.

We watched powerful characters rise and fall. I.e. Cersei. Now that Cersei has had her power stripped away, she is generally harmless. Even if you took Brienne's sword away, I still wouldn't want to fight her. That was my point.