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PirateVergo

Does a blackfyre have more claim to the IT than Daenerys ?

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We know that no Women can sit on the Iron Throne since the Dance of Dragons unless they are the last heir alive.


If we use Targ laws does fAegon has a better claim than Daenerys?


Of course Blackfyre aren't targ but they still share the same blood and even if they are a bastard house they're still noble.


Going further, does a Targ male bastard (for example Jon if L+R weren't married) come before a women if we use Targ laws?



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We know that no Women can sit on the Iron Throne since the Dance of Dragons unless they are the last heir alive.

If we use Targ laws does fAegon has a better claim than Daenerys?

Of course Blackfyre aren't targ but they still share the same blood and even if they are a bastard house they're still noble.

Going further, does a Targ male bastard (for example Jon if L+R weren't married) come before a women if we use Targ laws?

The Blackfyre's were stripped of all claims by the Targs, so yes Dany is before fAegom, but not Aegon.

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No woman can sit the throne if there is a male to inherit. Blackfyres were stripped of all rights during the rebellions. So no, Dany would absolutely come before a Blackfyre.

Not to mention, if Dany takes the throne it'll be by force, not name. So any old Targaryen succession laws would be null and void. If she conquered the country she would not have to step down to either Jon or Aegon (presuming he's real, which I don't believe). After that, Dany can make whatever succession laws she wants. She can make it so only females can inherit the throne if that is her desire. But I think she'd go more the Dornish route, first born is heir, regardless of sex.

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Yes, the Targs are thieves, the blackfyres are the true heirs of the black King, their blood is more senior.


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Going further, does a Targ male bastard (for example Jon if L+R weren't married) come before a women if we use Targ laws?

No. No bastard has any claim to anything, ever, unless legitimized.

If we set aside that the Targ claim is practically nonexistent anyway, maybe a Blackfyre would have a better claim than Danaerys. However, we don't know how many generations they would be willing to go back just to avoid having a woman on the throne.

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No woman can sit the throne if there is a male to inherit.

Until the worldbook or something else clarifies, I'm pretty iffy about this statement. It's never been established in books, just in a SSM from eight years ago. (A kinda suspect SSM, because the reporter lied about something else in the same report.)

I discussed it with some nice folks here:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/113710-westeros-law-regarding-female-heirs/page-3

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Faegon is also descended from the female line (Serra) and there are no precedents for whether a trueborn female has more claim than a male through the (bastard yet legitimized) female line.

You can make your guesses, but this is one of those things that George has yet to clarify.

Personally, I'd say it's moot as Jon is the rightful king.

"Kings are a rare sight in the north." Robert snorted "More likely they were hiding under the snow. Snow, Ned!"

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Everyone has "more claim" than Daenyrys.



That's what you wanted to hear, right?


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Everyone has "more claim" than Daenyrys.

That's what you wanted to hear, right?

Dany has all the claim she needs, and she has 3 of them.

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A Blackfyre would only have a better claim if he had more dragons and a larger army. That's more or less what Dany's claim is riding on right now.


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Dany, technically speaking, has zero claim to the throne. She will have to take it by force.


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Areo Hotah is the true king! :bowdown:


But srsly as people already said a blackfyre has no rights to the throne.


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Dany, technically speaking, has zero claim to the throne. She will have to take it by force.

She does have a claim to the throne. So does Stannis, Aegon (if real) and Jon (once his parentage is revealed). All of them will have tot ake it by force if they want to press their claims.

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I would argue that Joffery took the throne from Stannis "by right of conquest" at the Battle of the Blackwater.



As such, any other claims, beyond those of Jaime and Cersie's other bastards (ie Current King Tommen) are all only to be won via blood of conquest, rather than blood of inheritance.


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Stannis never had the throne, so no Joffrey did not take it from him. According to the laws of Westeros both Joffrey and Tommen are the right born sons of Robert Baratheon.


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From the point of view of Targ succession, no. Dany would come first, since the Blackfyres are considered traitors.


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The Blackfyre's were stripped of all claims by the Targs, so yes Dany is before fAegom, but not Aegon.

Sure, but the Targs were effectively stripped of all claims by the Baratheons.

The bottom line is that they all have colorable claims depending upon who gets to decide which edict, right of conquest, ancestral claim is legitimate. Whoever sits on the iron throne and forces his/her rivals to bend a knee will get to make that decision.

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For the trillionth time, a right is completely different from a claim. Daenerys has a claim to the Iron Throne as she is the only (confirmed) heir of the previous ruling House. She does not have a right to the throne, and arguably, no one else does either.


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Until the worldbook or something else clarifies, I'm pretty iffy about this statement. It's never been established in books, just in a SSM from eight years ago. (A kinda suspect SSM, because the reporter lied about something else in the same report.)

I discussed it with some nice folks here:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/113710-westeros-law-regarding-female-heirs/page-3

I agree (but I am not sure the worldbook will answer this particular question). The issue of when a female comes in line under Targ inheritance remains somewhat unclear. I think we know that after DoD 1.0, potential female heirs come after potential male heirs. But there has to be some limit, I would imagine. How far back would one have to go in the analysis? Would descendants all the way back from Aegon I be necessary before a female could inherit? I don't think DoD 1.0 answered that question. I think a new Grand Council would have to meet if such a situation arose and two people had competing claims--presumably Dany, as the last surviving Targ, and some male who inherited through a male line, for example, the son of the son of the son of the son of Aerion Brightflame. I don't know who the GC would pick, but it might be Dany on the theory that a female can inherit if no male within a certain number of generations exists to inherit, and the other claimant is just too far removed. We simply don't know the answer to this question.

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For the trillionth time, a right is completely different from a claim. Daenerys has a claim to the Iron Throne as she is the only (confirmed) heir of the previous ruling House. She does not have a right to the throne, and arguably, no one else does either.

:agree: A claim is your valid arguments to sustain your campaign. That's why not everybody goes around trying to take the throne. Except Euron, but Euron is a moron.

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