Jump to content

Dany will NOT fight the Others


Mithras

Recommended Posts

3 questions:

(1) Where is the information in the books that confirms these statements are correct?

(2) Where is the information in the books that confirms these are the only threats from the Others?

(3) But even assuming we can draw firm, universal conclusions from the fragmentary info we have been given about the Others (which is not something I would feel comfortable with, personally, as we've seen very little of the OThers), what about other people like Sam, the Old Bear, and Maester Aemon who we have seen making similar statements? Much less all the other nameless folks on the Wall. Even though we know Jon has political opposition, you would figure that most of the folks with common sense would probably hold similar views. They've all either seen the dead rise or heard about it. Wouldn't they all be fearing these things, and not just Jon? I damn sure would. It seems to me that Jon's political opposition are mostly just people who are anti-Jon or anti-change, not people who represent a particularly intelligent point of view.

Unless you can answer these questions, you haven't shown either (1) that what Jon knows is true, (2) that what he knows constitutes a full understanding of the threat from the Others, or (3) that others don't know what he knows. Your initial statement that Jon is the only person who fully understands the threat from the Others lacks foundation on any basis.

These statements ARE correct but that does not make them automatically embraced by the people. That is a major problem in ASOIAF. The wildlings, the NW, Stannis and the Northmen more or less know these things well. But the problem is that they do/can not set their differences aside or leave their vain pursuits/agendas and cooperate in harmony against the common enemy. That is a problem of leadership.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

She woke up when the night is over, and I doubt she will find so many wights after the LN 2.0. is dealt with. I think she will die before fighting the Others and when she wakes up in the afterlife, she can crush as many wights she can.

Um, aren't you trying to argue she's not the "Jesus" figure of the series? Because saying she'll die and resurrect to conquer the figures you seem to believe are the Anti-Christs is probably not the way to go about it.

This is just getting more and more ridiculous.

You seem to be so focused on proving that Jon is the supreme bees knees that you keep missing the easy, logical reason why Dany is probably not going to be the sole person to defeat the Others: they are more complex than ice cubes, and seem to have a perversion of a different sort of magic going on, one which a different family seems to have possession of.

Use the fact that she left the anthill in tact as a symbolic piece of an actual argument. Don't rely on this and then bend ludicrous things to fit that (like how Dany will ignore zombies running around and not be involved in the Long Night because she's apparently so desirous of the throne).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Paper Weaver;


The main flaw in this argument is that the mention of the word 'wall' automatically foreshadows events happening at The Wall in the north. But that does not make sense because of how common the word 'wall' is. If we all assumed that every word in the novels was foreshadowing of something greater, it would be hard to get through one page.



For instance;



"Some of the other guards swore they could hear them calling faintly through the stone, but when Jaime's men tore down the wall they found only earth and rubble on the far side."



Does this sentence foreshadow Jaime ordering the destruction of The Wall in the North and finding lost humans inside?



Look, you are really falling into the category of delusional hating on Dany. It's fine if you dont like her, but going to such lengths to bash her (and her future unconfirmed actions) makes no sense, it does nothing for the Dany-hate cause and discredits you as a poster.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Paper Weaver;

The main flaw in this argument is that the mention of the word 'wall' automatically foreshadows events happening at The Wall in the north. But that does not make sense because of how common the word 'wall' is. If we all assumed that every word in the novels was foreshadowing of something greater, it would be hard to get through one page.

For instance;

"Some of the other guards swore they could hear them calling faintly through the stone, but when Jaime's men tore down the wall they found only earth and rubble on the far side."

Does this sentence foreshadow Jaime ordering the destruction of The Wall in the North and finding lost humans inside?

Look, you are really falling into the category of delusional hating on Dany. It's fine if you dont like her, but going to such lengths to bash her makes no sense, it does nothing for the Dany-hate cause and discredits you as a poster.

Actually, SS, I think he's right that this wall has a symbolic connection to the Wall; in particular, Dany herself likens it to that one. And I also think the way the ants swarm her sleeping body is a symbolic reiteration of the image in the HotU, only this time with a swarm of wights added to the mix.

If there's any "foreshadowing" at all here, it might simply be that she left the hill in tact; symbolically, that would seem to say that she might not be the person or one of the people who destroys the Others at their source. Which we can kind of start deducing anyway.

But none of the "turning her back on the real problems" or any such things holds up from this. She got rid of the ants and continued on. If anything, it's saying that when she becomes aware of this threat she's going to address it. Like, she rid herself of the ants when she realizes what's happened; as a parallel, she might rid Westeros of the wights, freeing up someone else to eradicate the source. ETA: I hasten to add that I'm not really sure Jon will be this person either, or that even this will be accomplished by only one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah I don't think Dany will fight the Others. I think Jon is gonna do it all by himself, and no one in Westeros will bat an eyelid. He'll then die in obscurity at the wall, with no one knowing what he did because everyone was too busy focusing on Dany.

You just described many boarders's biggest nightmare :lol:

But really, Jon is so far the only one of the main characters AWARE of the danger for one simple reason. He's the ONLY ONE there. Can we even blame Tyrion for not having believed Thorne? Or anybody else?

The Wall is aware now and also Stannis. Even though Stannis is, in a way, alienated from mostly of Westeros cultured due to his change of religion, some will believe him, and specially the North. Sam in at the Citadel, and he's telling people what he saw. The news of the return of the Others is JUST starting to spread to the people who really matters, while Bran is JUST learning how to control his powers. Thinking Jon will be the one and only hero is too soon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually, SS, I think he's right that this wall has a symbolic connection to the Wall; in particular, Dany herself likens it to that one. And I also think the way the ants swarm her sleeping body is a symbolic reiteration of the image in the HotU, only this time with a swarm of wights added to the mix.

If there's any "foreshadowing" at all here, it might simply be that she left the hill in tact; symbolically, that would seem to say that she might not be the person or one of the people who destroys the Others at their source. Which we can kind of start deducing anyway.

But none of the "turning her back on the real problems" or any such things holds up from this. She got rid of the ants and continued on. If anything, it's saying that when she becomes aware of this threat she's going to address it. Like, she rid herself of the ants when she realizes what's happened; as a parallel, she might rid Westeros of the wights, freeing up someone else to eradicate the source. ETA: I hasten to add that I'm not really sure Jon will be this person either, or that even this will be accomplished by only one.

Well I disagree, I dont think the ants and the wall symbolize anything in Dany's last chapter. I think her getting bitten so many times contributes to her basic sickly state of being abused by the elements and nature while she is on her own.. And it is just showing that walking away from Drogon was a bad idea in general.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I disagree, I dont think the ants and the wall symbolize anything in Dany's last chapter. I think her getting bitten so many times contributes to her basic sickly state of being abused by the elements and nature while she is on her own.. And it is just showing that walking away from Drogon was a bad idea in general.

But Martin directly connects them. Like, Martin actually made a point of having Dany liken this wall to the great one Vis spoke of. How isn't this a symbolic connection to that wall? There's other layers of symbolism, but Martin is making a big point of connecting those 2 walls in this case by calling attention to it so explicitly.

I think PW is right in so far as this is a symbolic connection, and potential foreshadowing. I just think he interpreted the foreshadowing opposite of what it's actually showing us. Dany is asleep, ants crawl all over her; like the sleeping woman at the HotU "Westeros" is being ravaged. But unlike the woman in the HotU, Dany sees what's going on, gets up and removes the threat. Any foreshadowing is saying that she's going to address and eradicate this threat in Westeros. But the ant hill left in tact would suggest that she's probably not the one who will eradicate the source of it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But Martin directly connects them. Like, Martin actually made a point of having Dany liken this wall to the great one Vis spoke of. How isn't this a symbolic connection to that wall? There's other layers of symbolism, but Martin is making a big point of connecting those 2 walls in this case by calling attention to it so explicitly.

I think PW is right in so far as this is a symbolic connection, and potential foreshadowing. I just think he interpreted the foreshadowing opposite of what it's actually showing us. Dany is asleep, ants crawl all over her; like the sleeping woman at the HotU "Westeros" is being ravaged. But unlike the woman in the HotU, Dany sees what's going on, gets up and removes the threat. Any foreshadowing is saying that she's going to address and eradicate this threat in Westeros. But the ant hill left in tact would suggest that she's probably not the one who will eradicate the source of it.

I agree completely with this interpretation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't really care much for the whole AAR / TPTWP prophecies to begin with, and would much rather it just be less mystical and more straightforward when fighting the Others, but that being said: it would definitely by more interesting to me to have Dany wait out the Winter in Essos and have the Others dealt with only for Dany to show up in Westeros and have a repeat of the the War of the Five Kings. Sort of a mark against humanity that they fought off what is potentially the biggest threat to their existence but they still can't get it together and be peaceful, instead immediately returning to the petty squabbling and waring amongst themselves.



But realistically: I would be very suprised if Dany and the dragons didn't end up at the wall, even if she isn't AAR / TPTWP.



Sidenote: people brought up Dany's and Bran's dreams about ice when they almost died. This could be about the Others, but it could just as easily be about death itself. Neither specifically mention icy enemies, but Bran's does mention death reaching for him. Dany's seems more to be about dying or "becoming the dragon", thus the cold receeding as she becomes the dragon and flies off in the dream.



The dream about being Rhaegar and fighting the enemies armored in ice is much more open to being about the Others, although as was already pointed out: Rhaegar died at the Trident, which doesn't bode well for Dany.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think PW is right in so far as this is a symbolic connection, and potential foreshadowing. I just think he interpreted the foreshadowing opposite of what it's actually showing us. Dany is asleep, ants crawl all over her; like the sleeping woman at the HotU "Westeros" is being ravaged. But unlike the woman in the HotU, Dany sees what's going on, gets up and removes the threat. Any foreshadowing is saying that she's going to address and eradicate this threat in Westeros. But the ant hill left in tact would suggest that she's probably not the one who will eradicate the source of it.

I don't think it's much of a "foreshadowing" as a "backshadowing", or the culmination of something we've seen before. It's indeed, a parallel to the HotU, when the woman is being ravaged, that's the warning. Now, without noticing, she's removing the thread from her body and she's aware that the threat, at the moment, it's whatever is happening in Meereen, Slaver's Bay is ravaging her. This will fulfil Martin's words of "she's coming home".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think it's much of a "foreshadowing" as a "backshadowing", or the culmination of something we've seen before. It's indeed, a parallel to the HotU, when the woman is being ravaged, that's the warning. Now, without noticing, she's removing the thread from her body and she's aware that the threat, at the moment, it's whatever is happening in Meereen, Slaver's Bay is ravaging her. This will fulfil Martin's words of "she's coming home".

Then Why did GRRM likened the wall to the Wall? Last time I checked, it was not in Meereen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

oh shit. I didn't see the Mod message when I posted. Edited to reflect that.

@PW

You aren't using evidence to back up the assertion in the OP. Like, an assumption that Dany turns her back on a zombie apocalypse doesn't follow from her character.

I'm not being bossy so much as I'm being very direct about where your argument is correct (that this wall is being symbolically connected to the Wall), where it falls apart (what happens there is basically the opposite of how you're spinning it, save that she leaves the anthill in tact), and explaining which part can be supported by more evidence or strong suppositions (she might not be one of the people who eradicates the source of the Others, but that does not necessitate that she ignores the Long Night).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...