GRRM should have made Valyrians black

[Ocelot]

I recently read that GRRM wanted to show that the Valyrians were "different" from other humans in ASOIAF, so he gave them the traditional elvish qualities of silver hair, purple eyes & delicate features. However, in that same interview he also stated that it occurred to him "20 yrs too late" that he could have made the Valyrians black instead. I personally think the latter choice would have been MUCH cooler; it would really be breaking the fantasy & RL mold to make a race of sorcerers & conquerors black. It would have been even more interesting if instead of making them look like sub-Saharan Africans GRRM gave the Valyrians black (really black, not just brown) skin & European features. That would have been cool.

Who would you guys cast for Black!Daenerys, Black!Viserys & Black!Aegon?

[It-was-koff-the-Pie-koff]

I guess the world wasn't ready... Also if Daenerys were black would the series have been as successful? Not to sound racist but come on, The Wire was a fantastic show but never hit big while it was airing because it was a "black" show.

[High without honor]

Eddie Murphy as Viserys, just kidding... :)

Willow Smith as Daenerys

[JoeyBanana]

Eddie Murphy as BlackViserys, BlackDany and BlackAegon.

Adam Sandler plays Jaime and Cersei and Tyrion.

Perfect. Oh and Nicolas Cage as Joffrey.

[Bennis of the Brown Shield]

He would have been accused of being a racist way more often than he is now.

Because the Valyrians and Targaryens are, by and large, not very nice people.

[Prince of the North]

He would have been accused of being a racist way more often than he is now.

Because the Valyrians and Targaryens are, by and large, not very nice people.

I agree. Also, wouldn't Martin making Valyrians have "black (really black, not just brown) skin & European features" just open Martin up to criticism that he ripped off the Drow from Dungeons & Dragons?

[Ocelot]

He would have been accused of being a racist way more often than he is now.

Because the Valyrians and Targaryens are, by and large, not very nice people.

The Valyrians were on average no worse than the white ironborn and the white Qartheen, and their are plenty of good or at least neutral Targs. No one says that because ASOIAF contains so many horrible ppl of Northern European appearance (Euron, Tywin, Cersei, Roose, Ramsay, LF, Gregor, Qyburn, etc.) that GRRM is racist against whites.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

With the rest of the Westerosi, except for the Dornish, being extremely white, that would make secret Targs a lot easier to spot. It would also potentially throw a monkey wrench into R+L=J. Harder to pass Rhaegar's son off as Ned's kid with a fisherman's daughter under those circumstances.

[Ocelot]

I would cast the gorgeous & talented Lupita Nyong'o as Black!Daenerys.

[SeanF]

Martin would certainly have been accused of racism had he made a race of savage conquerors and ruthless Slavers black.

[Circle_breaker]

There's lots of fantasy series that have blacks as the slavers, mages, and the elite class. If anything it's a bit of trope.

[Ocelot]

There's lots of fantasy series that have blacks as the slavers, mages, and the elite class. If anything it's a bit of trope.

Which ones?

[PatrickStormborn]

Martin would certainly have been accused of racism had he made a race of savage conquerors and ruthless Slavers black.

Yeah definitely. I think he even mentions that himself.

A better solution would have been for the andals to have had mixed heritage, which would have allowed more diversity across the Seven Kingdoms.

[Cas Stark]

If they were anything but light haired and light skinned unless they had some extremely unusual combo like purple eyes and olive skin.... they wouldn't have had the obsessive need to intermarry though to keep the recessive genes manifesting...because the dark hair/dark eyes would be dominant ...they'd be more like the Baratheons...in which case, all that incest would be sort of pointless because if they were dark haired and dark skinned their children would more than likely look like them no matter who they intermarried with.

[SeanF]

Which ones?

Come to think of it, Ursula Le Guin does so.

[Arya Weinergaryen]

I think it would have been cool. As I recall, in the Eragon books, there was a group of forest dwelling people who had night black skin, a concept I found interesting.

Eddie Murphy as Viserys, just kidding... :)

Willow Smith as Daenerys

Oh, god... it hurts.....

If they were anything but light haired and light skinned unless they had some extremely unusual combo like purple eyes and olive skin.... they wouldn't have had the obsessive need to intermarry though to keep the recessive genes manifesting...because the dark hair/dark eyes would be dominant ...they'd be more like the Baratheons...in which case, all that incest would be sort of pointless because if they were dark haired and dark skinned their children would more than likely look like them no matter who they intermarried with.

Yeah, but in a fantasy world, recessive genes could be what the author makes them, instead of the type of phenotype selection that occurs IRL.

[jarl the climber]

I think its fair to say that people living in such a warm region would tend to have a darker tone, like the Indians, Iranians, etc. When you live in a warmer region the skin produces melanin to absorb the sunlight, white skin is an adaptation to a colder less sunny climate. Having said that it would have been more realistic to have Valyrians at least olive skinned. Still the pale skinned, thin, white blond hair look sort of fits the mold for this incest based culture he was trying to create just like Cas Stark is saying.

[Arya Weinergaryen]

I think its fair to say that people living in such a warm region would tend to have a darker tone, like the Indians, Iranians, etc. When you live in a warmer region the skin produces melanin to absorb the sunlight, white skin is an adaptation to a colder less sunny climate. Having said that it would have been more realistic to have Valyrians at least olive skinned. Still the pale skinned, thin, white blond hair look sort of fits the mold for this incest based culture he was trying to create just like Cas Stark is saying.

Iranians are actually pretty light skinned.

[Bridgeburners]

If they were anything but light haired and light skinned unless they had some extremely unusual combo like purple eyes and olive skin.... they wouldn't have had the obsessive need to intermarry though to keep the recessive genes manifesting...because the dark hair/dark eyes would be dominant ...they'd be more like the Baratheons...in which case, all that incest would be sort of pointless because if they were dark haired and dark skinned their children would more than likely look like them no matter who they intermarried with.

Orbital mechanics is a hell of a lot more solidified and unambiguous than genetics. If GRRM can fuck with the former, he can certainly use creative license on the latter. Besides, don't the offspring of very dark-skinned and light-skinned parents tend to have medium complexion?

I guess the world wasn't ready... Also if Daenerys were black would the series have been as successful? Not to sound racist but come on, The Wire was a fantastic show but never hit big while it was airing because it was a "black" show.

I'd say it has a lot to do with the fact that TV wasn't nearly as big then as it is now (TV awards were still scoffed at in comparison to movie awards). But still, Targaryens are a very small subset of the cast of the series, even if they're a large historical family. I dunno... I don't think GRRM was too worried about being "too edgy" when he wrote GoT; I mean, he had a sex scene with a 13 year old girl in, like, the third chapter.

[Ocelot]

I think it would have been cool. As I recall, in the Eragon books, there was a group of forest dwelling people who had night black skin, a concept I found interesting.

Oh, god... it hurts.....

Yeah, but in a fantasy world, recessive genes could be what the author makes them, instead of the type of phenotype selection that occurs IRL.

Exactly; in ASOIAF dark skin could be recessive, a change from RL which would make Black!valyrians even cooler. Genetics in ASOIAF is already quasi-magical (I mean, the Starks & Lannisters have had their respective looks for millennia?)