Why does everyone hate the Lannisters?

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Littlefinger and Lysa Arryn say hello.

And the main reason Arryn was killed was because he'd figured out the incest. So the point stands.

[FireIsMyChampion]

I like most of them.

[INCBlackbird]

Yeah not true at all, I don't watch the tv show and I hate the Lannisters with the fire of a billion sons.

Tywin was a monster he's a mass murderer who has had babies murdered and women. He had Elia and her children brutally murdered. He had a child gang raped, he is the reasons Jaime/Cersei exist two other monsters, the RW, the stealing and vandalism or Ice, terrorizing the Riverlands, sacking Kings Landing and he's a very horrible monster.

Jaime is evil he's pushed a child to cover up him having sex with his equally evil sister/queen, he is responsible for TWot5Ks, he killed Jory just to reprimand Ned, he helped create Joffery and that is enough to hate him, he's a bitch just a man made bitch!!!

Cersei is also evil, only evil could create Joffery, she's also crazy and delusional, I hate her so very much. She also is the cause of TWot5ks

Tyrion is a whiner who has also done terrible things I don't hate him but I'm not delusional either about him. He's entitled and violent

Keven has been the right hand men of the devil himself(Tywin)for for most of his life flowing Tywin's evil orders without question and continues to worship a monster. Keven was also evil.

Lancel, Devan, even Tommen and Myrcella are not so bad but I hate all Lannisters

doing bad things =/= being evil... just saying. by that standard 90% of the characters in asoiaf would be evil (including most of the starks)

[Mladen]

Wow now, Tyrion can't really be blamed for his marriage to Sansa. I thought he was generally pretty kind and gentle about the whole affair.

Because he couldn't refuse, right? Oh wait, he could have.

[Red Tiger]

So? it was the twincest that pushed everything from Catelyn taking Tyrion, from Cersei having Robert killed, from Robb calling his banners because his father was wrongfully imprisoned, etc.......

Without the twincest bastards there would not have been a war. Cersei and Jaime planted those seeds, acted recklessly by having sex in unfamiliar places, even having sex by a passed out Robert. Than other people saw an opportunity and used it, still doesn't dismiss the fact that Jaime and Cersei caused the war

And the main reason Arryn was killed was because he'd figured out the incest. So the point stands.

I stand corrected

[OldGimletEye]

The only Lannisters I truly hate are Tywin, Cersei, and Joffrey. The rest I don't consider to be that bad. But, the decent Lannisters are by and large supporting the war Tywin started and Cersei's regime. If the decent Lannister's go down supporting the “Lannister War Effort”, well I guess that's tragic, but that's just the nature of armed conflict. I am sure quite often fairly decent people (like many of the poor farm boys that have died fighting for the Lannisters) die supporting really really bad regimes.

I do hope Tommen and Myrcella survive though. They seem to be really good kids, which is pretty amazing considering how dysfunctional their situation was.

[The Wolves]

doing bad things =/= being evil... just saying. by that standard 90% of the characters in asoiaf would be evil (including most of the starks)

I don't know how any of the Starks actions are on the level of the Lannisters.

And yeah I do think some of the characters in ASOIAF are evil. Society would defiantly call their actions "evil" it would not be grey in our world.

[JoeyBanana]

What?

Particular with show fans, the Lannister drama is far too popular, in my opinion. It's gotten to the point where my friends (show only viewers) have started to vilify Robb and Catelyn to justify their love for the rich lions. It's absurd.

That's only my personal experience, though. I don't think there's any disproportionate Lannister "hate" here the only unwarranted negativity is mostly reserved for Quentyn. The rest is fine by me.

[INCBlackbird]

Well, in many cases, yes it does. Without getting into the whole ''all the characters are grey, not truly good or bad'' malarky, we can definitely say that based on their actions and feelings that many of the Lannisters are in some way ''evil''.

Can't really think what the Starks have done that was bad, though.

I guess it depends on what your defenition of evil is, I think I'm pretty mild about it because it's a strong word I tend to only attribute the title of evil to characters like Ramsay, the mountain... the ones who aren't grey anymore but actually solid black.

the thing is also that I do not judge people on their actions, I just people on how they felt during those actions (which is nicely provided to use in asoiaf so it's easy to take that into account) because I think that's what truely says something about a that person. there's a difference between committing murder and enjoying it, and commiting a murder and feeling horrible about it. the first i'd call evil the second not so much (which does not mean I absolve them or their crime or think they should be forgiven)

and I do honestly think that if doing bad things makes characters evil lots of the starks could be counted among them... Robb, Arya, Ned (arguebly), Cat (arguebly)... and I do not think any of these characters are even close to evil.

[Lord Damian]

There are Lannisters with concience. Kevan is devasted when he realizes that Stannis's letter was true, all of those deaths, his son being seduced and morally broken by Cersei and the thousands upon thousands of lives destroyed by his own kin's fault. Genna even reflects how Tywin became a dark individual and did questionable things. However, as Apple stated, they continue to help the family machine. Tyrion especially knew everything yet he willingly participated in the continuous treason in the hopes he would be rewarded with Casterly Rock for it. The burdon of truth though, for this family seems to not be enough to outway the gold of deceit and treachery.

[The Wolves]

There are Lannisters with concience. Kevan is devasted when he realizes that Stannis's letter was true, all of those deaths, his son being seduced and morally broken by Cersei and the thousands upon thousands of lives destroyed by his own kin's fault. Genna even reflects how Tywin became a dark individual and did questionable things. However, as Apple stated, they continue to help the family machine. Tyrion especially knew everything yet he willingly participated in the continuous treason in the hopes he would be rewarded with Casterly Rock for it. The burdon of truth though, for this family seems to not be enough to outway the gold of deceit and treachery.

Keven was not devastated about Stannis' letter being true he didn't care at all about it. Keven only thought in terms on how it would affect the Lannisters he gave no fecks about the thousands of lives him and his have taken and destroyed he knew and he kept pushing on.

[Lady Flandrensis]

I generally despise rotten people who depend on their owning money to justify everything they do. Bullies are also rotten people. Tywin, Joffrey and Cersei are rotten people. Jaime's no good guy and Tyrion is, I fear, doomed to bottom-dwelling for the rest of the saga. The not-quite-rotten Lannisters are too few in number to redeem any of them.

[Fat Mac]

Keven was not devastated about Stannis' letter being true he didn't care at all about it. Keven only thought in terms on how it would affect the Lannisters he gave no fecks about the thousands of lives him and his have taken and destroyed he knew and he kept pushing on.

Sorry to break it to you, but 95% of the nobles don't give a shit about the smallfolk. They are cannon fodder to be used to fight the nobleman's wars, nothing more.

Also, I don't understand why the Lannisters are criticized for choosing family above all else. It's considered an admirable quality for other houses :dunno:

[Dolorous Gabe]

The Lannisters are a wonderfully dysfunctional family unit full of complex, grey characters, but ultimately when it's Lannister vs Stark I'm always going to side with Stark.

Is it not possible to enjoy them as characters but still despise them? I dislike Cersei immensely but the story would lose something without her. I am a Tyrion fan though. He's great. One of the things I liked about the Blackwater Battle is that there were people I liked on each side (Tyrion and Davos) and people I disliked on each side (Joffrey and MeliStannis).

OP compared current Lancel with Baelor The Blessed as a positive thing. I would just point out that Baelor imprisoned his sisters so he would be free of temptation. Grey character.

[INCBlackbird]

I don't know how any of the Starks actions are on the level of the Lannisters.

And yeah I do think some of the characters in ASOIAF are evil. Society would defiantly call their actions "evil" it would not be grey in our world.

I replied to someone else about this. just wanted to let you know :)

the starks actions aren't nessacrily on the same level as the lannisters but there are some horrible deeds there. if you're going to be black and white about them you gotta be consistent, hold everyone to the same stanards.

I do think some of the characters in asoiaf are evil as well, though not a lot of them.

last I checked in our world we have trials because the circemstances under which something happens is taken into account, so yes, they would be seen as grey. (also seeing actions as evil is not the same as seeing characters as evil)

[INCBlackbird]

The not-quite-rotten Lannisters are too few in number to redeem any of them.

euhm.... what... so because the majority of the family are considered bad people that automatically makes the non bad people still bad people because they are part of the family... guilt by association, I love it!

[Ulthosian Stark]

I equate greed with trashiness and cowardice, which the Lannister have in spades. Jamie is good now, I've liked him since he had a hand chopped off. I've always like Tyrion, he's never done anything nearly as bad as his family.

Cercei Tywin Joff, all are insane in their own twisted ways and deserve to be hated. They are cowards, plain and simple. Now they are BROKE cowards. They won't last long.

I don't even count the others as their actions are all pretty much controlled by Tywin cercei or Joff.

I also really just hate greedy power hungry people in all situations, other books, real world etc. Greed is the downfall of capitalism and humanity

[David Selig]

Jaime - his redemption arc is so well written that you can like Kingslayer or not but you can't say he's bad guy now.

Sure I can, I have done it plenty of times before too. He is still a scumbag.

Welcome to the board anyway. ;)

[The Wolves]

I replied to someone else about this. just wanted to let you know :)

the starks actions aren't nessacrily on the same level as the lannisters but there are some horrible deeds there. if you're going to be black and white about them you gotta be consistent, hold everyone to the same stanards.

I do think some of the characters in asoiaf are evil as well, though not a lot of them.

last I checked in our world we have trials because the circemstances under which something happens is taken into account, so yes, they would be seen as grey. (also seeing actions as evil is not the same as seeing characters as evil)

Yes we have trials in our world and we get to hear both sides but at the same time it all comes down to what's right and what's wrong and were they justified in their actions?

I don't see how anyone could excuse any of the Lannisters actions, the evil they do is justified by their greed of power and when they do protect their own the ones they are protecting are evil, there is no justification in what they do.

[cocoalover1956]

Could he have? I didn't get that impression. I thought Tywin was pretty adamant about it even when he did say ''no.'' at first.

And even provided he could have refused, what did he gain by going ahead with it? I don't recall any moment in ASoS where he finds himself pleased that he might inherit WF, he seems mostly focussed on CR.

1. Yes, Tyrion could have refused. Tywin gave him options other than Sansa (not very attractive ones, but still options) and there were other Lannisters that could have married Sansa.

2. Tyrion did admit to himself that he wanting Winterfell. He wanted to marry Sansa up until he realized just how much she didn't want him, because it was a huge blow to him pride/self-esteem.