Why does everyone hate the Lannisters?

[Mladen]

Elia really? Because iirc that was Aerys and Elia's mother. Come on! You can say a lot of things about Tywin but he isn't that stupid.

That is not stupidity, that is visciousness at its prime. Tywin perhaps didn't say "rape her and crush her head" but he certainly knew what sort of a man Gregor is. He unleased mad dog and he was surprised with what happened? Tywin's hypocrisy in all its glory. What happened to Elia, just as what happened to her children is on Tywin.

[Boarsbane]

You've horrendously misread the text if you think that is true. Read here.

Cat provoked Tywin and he responded exactly as she should of known he would. Cat isn't an idiot, she knew Tywin wouldn't just let her get away with it and she did it anyways, she is just as responsible as anyone else for the start of hostility between the Lannisters and the Tullys.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Cat started it

I must be one of the biggest Cat haters in these forums (if not the biggest :P) but I have to say that it wasn't Cat who started the War.

[Mladen]

I must be one of the biggest Cat haters in thise forums (if not the biggest :P) but I have to say that it wasn't Cat who started the War.

Jesus... Do you really think admitting being a hater actually brings you some credibility points? Just to assure you, it doesn't.

Admit dislike, never hate ;)

[LordStoneheart]

Cat provoked Tywin and he responded exactly as she should of known he would. Cat isn't an idiot, she knew Tywin wouldn't just let her get away with it and she did it anyways, she is just as responsible as anyone else for the start of hostility between the Lannisters and the Tullys.

Wtf kind of special privileges does Tywin have that he could just declare war and destruction for the arrest of a family member? I'll answer for you. None. That is why he did it under anonymous banners. Brandon Stark did not rape and pillage the crownlands because of the Rhaegar/Lyanna debacle, nor did Rickard. Tywin doesn't have the right to have innocent men killed because of a perceived slight. He had even less evidence that Cat did about Tyrion yet still sent men to make war. For all he knew, Tyrion very well could have been guilty. He could've been the one to push Bran and Tywin wouldn't have cared.

I must be one of the biggest Cat haters in these forums (if not the biggest :P) but I have to say that it wasn't Cat who started the War.

That's about the best I think I can get from you and I love it. :love:

[ChillyPolly]

Jaime: Evil bastard on a damnation arc, whose small glimmerings of humanity are only meant to emphasize the difference when he finally loses what little humanity he has left. He used to hate everyone but his sister, and now he hates her too, and since the fans also hate his sister they mistake this for redemption. He is a narcissist with a messiah complex (he wants everyone to worship him as savior) , and fans also mistake this for a redemption arc. My guess is that his true arc is to become a demonic "messiah", Azor Ahai reborn, a monster wielding a flaming sword in his enchanted golden hand, while slaying those he is supposed to protect in order to further his "cause" (ala Nissa Nissa).

Tyrion: Self-pitying monster, who thinks the entire world should stand hostage to his self pity. He is gradually becoming more and more monstrous. That some fans do not realize this, even after he murdered Shae, is scary.

Tywin: He's pretty bad too, but he's dead, so why waste words.

Joffrey: Ditto.

Lancel: The only Lannister with an ACTUAL redemption arc. So naturally, the fans hate him.

Tommen and Myrcella: Innocent children, and hence, sadly ... doomed.

[Boarsbane]

Wtf kind of special privileges does Tywin have that he could just declare war and destruction for the arrest of a family member? I'll answer for you. None. That is why he did it under anonymous banners. Brandon Stark did not rape and pillage the crownlands because of the Rhaegar/Lyanna debacle. Tywin doesn't have the right to have innocent men killed because of a perceived slight. He had even less evidence that Cat did about Tyrion yet still sent men to make war.

That's about the best I think I can get from you and I love it. :love:

What kind of special privileges does Catelyn have to take his son hostage? Tywin can't outright invade the Riverlands at that point for two reasons, one the Starks are in good with Robert through Ned and two he wants to lure Ned south to capture him, which is a lot harder to do if he comes with an army at his back to face him in the field as opposed to a small party to hunt down raiders.

[LordStoneheart]

What kind of special privileges does Catelyn have to take his son hostage? arrest a possible conspirator in a very real conspiracy against her family

Lady of Winterfell.

Wife of the Hand of the King.

Daughter of the Lord of the Riverlands.

Her actions caused no harm to anyone other than probably a little discomfort for Tyrion. Tywin has innocent Riverland blood on his hands because he's blinded by pride.

[7th-key]

I must be one of the biggest Cat haters in these forums (if not the biggest :P) but I have to say that it wasn't Cat who started the War.

How about LF killing Jon Arryn, telling Cat a certain dagger belonged to Tyrion, betraying Ned with the promise of gold cloaks support, and making sure that once Joff gave the order, Ned would be executed quickly before the king could even be asked to rethink about it...

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Does it really make him any stupider to have ordered it? It was still only rumors that Gregor did it to Elia, so his reputation would be about the same. No doubt many in the story also thought it was his order. This is how I see it.

1. He's ordered rape before. Tysha.

2. He snubbed the Martells, and in turn saw Aerys passing up Cersei for Elia as a snub from both families

3. He admitted to ordering the babies killed.

4. He kept Gregor and Amory employed even after it happened, which is in a way approving of it.

5. Above all, Tywin is a very petty man and just because he denies it to Tyrion doesn't mean that was the truth. He's lied and kept the truth from Tyrion before.

We can't know for sure, of course, but I think methinks it's more likely that he did order it.

I don't believe that a man who had no problems to do what he has done would hesitate to admit that he told thet Elia had died. I believe that for him Elia was a nobody, good for nothing more that giving birth to Rhaegar's spawns so he never spend a second thought on her.

That is not stupidity, that is visciousness at its prime. Tywin perhaps didn't say "rape her and crush her head" but he certainly knew what sort of a man Gregor is. He unleased mad dog and he was surprised with what happened? Tywin's hypocrisy in all its glory. What happened to Elia, just as what happened to her children is on Tywin.

Again, I am not saying that he told to Gregor "Don't harm her" I am saying that he doesn't mentioned her because for him she wasn't important.

Jesus... Do you really think admitting being a hater actually brings you some credibility points? Just to assure you, it doesn't.

Admit dislike, never hate ;)

Not even I,as a hater, can say that she started the war. The same way that she didn't caused Red Wedding.

btw, I am not sure I understood what you meant. :leaving:

That's about the best I think I can get from you and I love it. :love:

WUT :shocked: ? I thought that we had an agreement about B&C.

btw one of your sig sentences reminds me of those two:

https://scontent-a-mxp.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1.0-9/10247506_769259439772248_2993596848753679923_n.jpg https://scontent-b-mxp.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t1.0-9/10304789_562264800549321_3454387616818558714_n.jpg

How about LF killing Jon Arryn, telling Cat a certain dagger belonged to Tyrion, betraying Ned with the promise of gold cloaks support, and making sure that once Joff gave the order, Ned would be executed quickly before the king could even be asked to rethink about it...

Huh?

[LordStoneheart]

WUT :shocked: ? I thought that we had an agreement about B&C.

btw one of your sig sentences reminds me of those two:

https://scontent-a-mxp.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1.0-9/10247506_769259439772248_2993596848753679923_n.jpg https://scontent-b-mxp.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t1.0-9/10304789_562264800549321_3454387616818558714_n.jpg

I don't remember the agreement... refresh? love the links though. :]

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I don't remember the agreement... refresh? love the links though. :]

3 words, Blood and Cheese (and Daemon, Helaena, Hellicent, Lucerys, Aemond).

[Mladen]

Again, I am not saying that he told to Gregor "Don't harm her" I am saying that he doesn't mentioned her because for him she wasn't important.

Elia wasn't some Jane Do, some nobody, she was a Dornish Princess. And we see the consequences of that. I don't buy Tywin's story, as much as I don't buy his RW excuse. Tywin wanted Targaryen family ended and he sent two monsters to do it. That is like I put a gun into someone's forehead, shoot it, and then I say "I forgot that bullet will kill you" Tywin knew that Elia would be with her children, or not far from them, he simply didn't care about anyone surviving.

Simply, Oberyn's story of how Elia took Cersei's place leaves no doubt that Tywin was very much aware of Elia.

[LordStoneheart]

3 words, Blood and Cheese (and Daemon, Helaena, Hellicent, Lucerys, Aemond).

ahhhhhh.... yeah I'm still with you there. ;)

and by the best I could get out of you, I think I just meant in regards to my Lady and Queen. I still look back fondly on the last pic exchange we had. :]

[Mladen]

double post

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Elia wasn't some Jane Do, some nobody, she was a Dornish Princess. And we see the consequences of that. I don't buy Tywin's story, as much as I don't buy his RW excuse. Tywin wanted Targaryen family ended and he sent two monsters to do it. That is like I put a gun into someone's forehead, shoot it, and then I say "I forgot that bullet will kill you" Tywin knew that Elia would be with her children, or not far from them, he simply didn't care about anyone surviving.

Simply, Oberyn's story of how Elia took Cersei's place leaves no doubt that Tywin was very much aware of Elia.

Or maybe he never cared for her in order to think anything for her and give the appropriate order. I am not saying that he was at any way innocent about what happened to her, I am saying that he didn't said "Kill Elia too."

ahhhhhh.... yeah I'm still with you there. ;)

:cheers:

[Mladen]

Or maybe he never cared for her in order to think anything for her and give the appropriate order. I am not saying that he was at any way innocent about what happened to her, I am saying that he didn't said "Kill Elia too."

First, he didn't have to. He was sending someone whom he believed would do the job even if it isn't spilled out to him. The fact is that he was sending a monster to perform atrocious act. As I said, if I unleash mad dogs on someone, I can't be surprised that someone was bitten.

Second, Tywin is all about PR. Not necessarily good PR, but nonetheless PR that establishes him as rather powerful, intimidating, respectful Highlord. We see it when he puts all the blame of RW on Boltons and Freys. He simply wants to look good. And thus, he isn't type of guy who would go around and say: Yeah, I ordered rape and crushing head of innocent woman.

[Dofs]

Damn show is screwing with my brain then. The show really does try to make him look like a terrible guy then. Kinslaying, sister raping, but they at least decided to make him and Tyrion depart on good terms. So much for his redemption, I'm sure people will start to hate him again on the show, unless he ditches Cersei.

Nah, they will make people hate him because he ditches Cersei.

Let's see... GRRM actually has described the Starks as heroes and called the Lannisters villains, so I do think it is more of a good/bad story than people are willing to admit.

First, when did he call Lannisters villains? I do remember him calling Greyjoys being the bad guys all the while debunking the interviewers question about Starks being good and Lannisters being bad. So, can you give me a link.

Second, GRRM's character is Tyrion and he was justifying the hell out of Jaime/Bran incident. I seriously doubt he considers Lannisters the villains.

[LordStoneheart]

First, when did he call Lannisters villains? I do remember him calling Greyjoys being the bad guys all the while debunking the interviewers question about Starks being good and Lannisters being bad. So, can you give me a link.

Second, GRRM's character is Tyrion and he was justifying the hell out of Jaime/Bran incident. I seriously doubt he considers Lannisters the villains.

Sorry, I'm about to sleep. It was a sports interview, if that helps. And if you look at all his comments about his characters, he plays devils advocate a lot, always being a little vague.

Case in point, these questions were given super vague answers

Was Cat taking Tyrion illegal?

Yes and no

Was she mean to Jon Snow?

Only once but she definitely didn't like him

Was Jaime in the wrong?

It was a hard decision but maybe the right one from his POV

Is Sansa to blame for her father's death

No but also maybe

[Aemond's Eye]

only tv viewers truly hate the Lannisters. they haven't read the books and think that the Lannisters are evil and all problems came from them. so no, not everyone hate the Lannisters.

I've read the books and there isn't one Lannister that I like. At all. Jaime has underwent an interesting journey and is a complex character, sure. But I don't find him likeable.

Kevan, Tommen and Myrcella are the closest to likeable Lannisters in my eyes. And two are children, and Kevan wasn't featured enough for me to have any strong opinion of him.