How will they condense FFC and DWD into Season 5? (book spoilers)

[Colonel Green]

Second and more importantly: D&D have shown NO sign that they favor the "end game" ideology. Burping whores, Beetles, Nothing is Nothing, etc. matter absolutely nothing to the end game and yet they are there all right.

Um, why are you comparing individual lines or tiny details to whole plotlines? Those aren't remotely comparable. The latter two you cite are meant to be in service of Tyrion and Arya's stories by explaining their mental states.

[boojam]

Or "They'll film what is actually necessary to the story and leave the extraneous stuff out".

Which is how the book should have been written in the first place.

As I have said before George entertains me even when his extended noodling on the page, I don't mind , he's a good writer.

I can see , content-wise, even if they had 12 episodes, the two-book story as

visual narrative needs

focus, it's going to be a tough job.

[JagLover]

As I have said before George entertains me even when his extended noodling on the page, I don't mind , he's a good writer.

I can see , content-wise, even if they had 12 episodes, the two-book story as

visual narrative needs

focus, it's going to be a tough job.

I've had a reread recently and though there are a number of chapters that bore me in AFFC/ADWD there are more that are brilliant, very well written and entertaining. The problem is that not enough ground was covered in those two books and yes, as they are, they are unflimable.

[RottenAppleFossoway]

I'm actually one that thinks that Brienne's arc in AFFC would be hilarious on film. Just have a scene every episode or so of her and Pod frustratingly meander through the river lands in a fruitless search for Sansa.

They really kinda screwed up Brienne by making her a stone cold killer from the outset of her intro in S2. The fact that she waits so long to actually kill a man is a big part of her character, particularly in AFFC once she actually does it. Alas, that ship has sailed.

[sj4iy]

I'm actually one that thinks that Brienne's arc in AFFC would be hilarious on film. Just have a scene every episode or so of her and Pod frustratingly meander through the river lands in a fruitless search for Sansa.

They really kinda screwed up Brienne by making her a stone cold killer from the outset of her intro in S2. The fact that she waits so long to actually kill a man is a big part of her character, particularly in AFFC once she actually does it. Alas, that ship has sailed.

We already had that with Arya and the Hound, though. Misadventures in Westeros...it could have been a sitcom. I don't think Brienne and Pod would have the same appeal.

[+cassius]

Many people prefer David and Dan's way of telling the story. I am one of those people. Jamie in Bronn in Dorne? Sounds better then what happened in the books. I look forward to it.

Just different ways to get to the end game. Hasn't Tywin/Arya and Hound/Brienne taught people anything? Changes made by the show runners often improve the source material.

It amazes me that some people are already mad about season 5 when they haven't seen a single second of it.

fantastic post

10/10

[Seneti]

I don't think Euron has been cast, however, Euron is the most likely of the Ironborn to be cast if they decide to, since he briefly appeared on one of the official GoT family tree guide things.

I think the writers were probably still debating whether to bring in Euron or not, and I guess we still don't know if he's been cut or not. I would bet on him being cut.

I agree that if they are going to include one of Theon's uncles, it will be Euron, although I don't think the family guide has anything to do with it. Aeron is a religious fanatic who spends him time yelling "no ungodly man shall sit the seastone chair", Victarion is essentially dumb muscle (even GRRM admitted it). Euron, on the other hand, is semi-charismatic, highly dangerous, sociopathic pirate with lots of potential for being the badass bad guy.

[Frederic_ed]

Do you think Trystanne will replace Quentyn's storyline (I mean, do you think he will go to Mereen and have the same fate?), if so, how would Doran break his promise to marry Trystane to Myrcella?

[Colonel Green]

Do you think Trystanne will replace Quentyn's storyline (I mean, do you think he will go to Mereen and have the same fate?), if so, how would Doran break his promise to marry Trystane to Myrcella?

Whether Trystane replaces Quentyn really comes down to whether Aegon is still involved. If he's not, I don't think there's any point in it, since Quentyn's story seems primarily intended to drive a wedge between Dany and House Martell, and if there's no Aegon, that's likely not necessary. It may not be necessary in any event.

As to the latter, by breaking it.

I really don't get why so many people bring up that Trystane is engaged to Myrcella. Doran never, ever intended for Trystane to actually marry Myrcella. She's a pawn/useful hostage, nothing more.

[kn1tt3r]

Whether Trystane replaces Quentyn really comes down to whether Aegon is still involved. If he's not, I don't think there's any point in it, since Quentyn's story seems primarily intended to drive a wedge between Dany and House Martell, and if there's no Aegon, that's likely not necessary. It may not be necessary in any event.

Cinematically the Dragontamer thing is also a very good scene to put on screen, even if there is no greater purpose to it.

[+cassius]

Do you think Trystanne will replace Quentyn's storyline (I mean, do you think he will go to Mereen and have the same fate?), if so, how would Doran break his promise to marry Trystane to Myrcella?

no way imo

trystane is the heir to doran

he is going to have a massive role in the show, especially if Aegon is cut

[Blackfyre Gateau]

They are going to alienate some book readers no matter what they do.

But 'a lot'? I seriously doubt it. These are the two books that many book readers agree SHOULD have been condensed. So I look forward to seeing what they do.

This!

I was at the Harper Collins GRRM and Robin Hobb book talk event at the Freemasons Hall last night and he was musing about fleshing the world out even more if he'd known it was going to go beyond a trilogy when he first wrote it.

What I love about the first 3 books is the relatively economical approach he takes with magic, prophecies, back story and world-building. We get some rich in-depth insights into the history and culture, but they're sprinkled in appropriately.

By contrast AFFC and ADWD are at points almost unreadable because he goes off on so many tangents. I would really welcome the whole Quentyn plot disappearing for one thing, plus a stripped down Ironborn kingsmoot plot wouldn't go amiss. One brother vs 'Yara' would more than suffice. I could also live without Arianne/ Darkstar, etc. I think the Sandsnake centric focus may actually end up turning out to be stronger material. We'll have to see.

[Ciarzard27]

I think that instead of introducing all these well cast sandsnakes just to have them locked in a tower they will have them be behind the crowning of Myrcella only to end up failing by the end of the season. I also am very saddened to say the greyjoys might be cut. I love damphair, euron, and victarion, I feel if you need to cut one it should be damphair but keep Euron we need a new villain to take over for Joff and Tywin and we need a new anti hero like victarion who is totally badass

[Game of Thrones Reference]

I think that instead of introducing all these well cast sandsnakes just to have them locked in a tower they will have them be behind the crowning of Myrcella only to end up failing by the end of the season. I also am very saddened to say the greyjoys might be cut. I love damphair, euron, and victarion, I feel if you need to cut one it should be damphair but keep Euron we need a new villain to take over for Joff and Tywin and we need a new anti hero like victarion who is totally badass

The Sand Snakes were behind the crowing in the books. It was their idea.

[Mr Fixit]

What I love about the first 3 books is the relatively economical approach he takes with magic, prophecies, back story and world-building. We get some rich in-depth insights into the history and culture, but they're sprinkled in appropriately.

Exactly! It's really interesting to retroactively evaluate the first three books in light of AFfC/ADwD. Martin seemed to easily:

1. Keep the plot moving at a brisk pace with a manageable and memorable cast of PoV characters

Engage in compelling and rich worldbuilding

Provide detailed backstory, both recent and ancient, personal and mythical

Have each book have a clear arc, both plot- and characterwise

Why it is suddenly needed to drastically increase the word count in order to provide 2) and 3) at the expense of 1) and 4) is beyond me.

[boojam]

Exactly! It's really interesting to retroactively evaluate the first three books in light of AFfC/ADwD. Martin seemed to easily:

• Keep the plot moving at a brisk pace with a manageable and memorable cast of PoV characters
• Engage in compelling and rich worldbuilding
• Provide detailed backstory, both recent and ancient, personal and mythical
• Have each book have a clear arc, both plot- and characterwise

Why it is suddenly needed to drastically increase the word count in order to provide 2) and 3) at the expense of 1) and 4) is beyond me.

As a reader I did not mind George's riffs, usually, but it's true , subsets of the walkabouts are zero sum, POVs seem to abound, new arcs shot out, I keep thinking "focus, focus! GRRM".

I think that is why I liked Arya's arc , it's only 5 chapters, packed with weirdness and goes somewhere and seems to be headed somewhere.

I am a patient reader so I went with the flow, but thinking of how it translates as visual drama, circumscribed by 10 episode seasons, makes my brain seize up.

[Sword of the Morgan]

I think it's a major mistake to try to fit two books into one season. It makes no sense to me.

[Mr Fixit]

I think that is why I liked Arya's arc , it's only 5 chapters, packed with weirdness and goes somewhere and seems to be headed somewhere.

Me too. Arya's chapters managed definite progress as well as interesting characterisation and worldbuilding all in the span of five chapters. Sure, those five chapters should have been in a single book, but still.

[The Reckoner]

I enjoyed the tangents GRRM took with AFFC/ADWD in that I had a hard time figuring out where he was going with them versus the first three books which were a bit too tightly focused. The problem is that GRRM didn't want to bring some of his new tangents to their finish. It is almost as if he wants to set up another ASOS where several plots go off all at once.

[123456750]

I think that season 5 should be Jon-centered, i.e. starts with him being chosen Lord Commander, and ends with him being "killed". Next major character should be Cersei, (I really like her in the show, and her AFFC and ADWD story is really epic), I think that her storyline will make an exciting season.

To make it easier for me, I will just rank them based on the screentime I think they will get in season 5:

3 main storylines that I think will not be changed (if only some minor changes)

points rank character

100 1 Jon - main male character, main protagonist
80 2 Cersei - main female character, main antagonist
60 3 Arya

other storylines:

60 4 Daenerys - no major changes
45 5 Dorne - Arianne and Quentyn are cut with Ellaria replacing Arianne.
45 6 Tyrion - his journey have to be shortened + Aegon's arc may being cut depends on its role in the next books.
40 7 Stannis - no major changes
40 8 Greyjoys (no kingsmoot, Victarion and Aeron are cut).
30 9 Sansa - showrunners will probably invent something for her (like they did with Bran at Craster's Keep).
30 10 Davos - no changes unless they cut Manderly which I hope they will not