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Most powerful non great houses


Kenton Stark

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I know that there is no direct evidence supporting this number. But given the Manderly's relatively southern placement, fertile area, wealth, and recent naval development, it is hypothesized that Wyman did not nearly send all of his men to Robb's calling (1,500) , or even to Ramsay's wedding (1,000) later. This topic has been discussed in detail but I will just say that while 8,000 may be too high ( it is my guess) it is certainly more than any other northern house and at least 5,000.

I agree.. Yes, we all know Lord Wyman only sent 1,500 men with Robb along with his two sons Wylis and Wendel, but it is mostly due to the fact that Lord Eddard ordered Wyman to fortify White Harbor so he could have held most of his forces back, same as what Lady Dustin did.. Plus, as a thriving center for trade, White Harbor is theoretically more populous than any settlement in the North, and thus logically, if the Boltons can raise 5,000 men, i have no reason to think how the Manderlys can have, at the very least 25% or 50% more men than the Boltons.. In ADwD, Lord Wyman says that he has more men than any other other above the Neck, and this is despite his loss from TWotFK.. Plus Lord Wyman has built a sizable Naval fleet, an manning them is needs quite a lot of able bodies.. Plus the fact that currently, there have been many refugees coming to White Harbor, adding in to the population and we knew that Lord Wyman has been training all able men above 5'ft, though not as untrained, he still has managed to increase his army.. So in my estimation, 8,000 is a decent number to bet on but saying that its below 6000 at the very least would be lunacy.. All this men coming from their own lands coupled with that of the men that can be raised by the a dozen petty lords, and a hundred landed knights in-liege with House Manderly.. Plus, one important fact to also consider is the wealth of House Manderly, and wealth = sellswords, and their proximity to Braavos makes everything a little bit easier.. I guess, with everyhting considered, i think its safe to assume that House Manderly with all their means can at-least field 10,000 to 13,000 men..

I have seen some discount this by claiming that, how can the Stark trust the Manderlys with this number of men being them virtually outsiders in the North.. Thing is, i don't see the Stark or even the other lords to look down on them.. Yes, they may criticize or make fun of how Lord Manderly governs his people which is more southern compared to them, but i don't think that they still see them as non-Northerners especially with the Starks seeing that the Starks and intermarried more with the Manderlys than any other noble house in the North, which i think is a statement to their status as a respected Northern lord..

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About the Crownlands, I would agree the Velaryon's would have ranked highly, if not the highest, on that list until the Targaryens were overthrown. Mostly because of their history with the Targaryens.



Aside from them, and the instance of a marriage with house Plumm, were there any other non great houses that the Targaryens would marry into? As that might go into having increased their standing.


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Aside from them, and the instance of a marriage with house Plumm, were there any other non great houses that the Targaryens would marry into? As that might go into having increased their standing.

Hmmm.. Targaryens married into the Arryns, Martells and Baratheons and probably the Starks (i still stand on my theory that Daeron I's wife was a Stark, possibly Sansa Stark, and probably one of Jaehaerys I's daughters married into the Starks as well as Aegon V's sisters.. and if R+L=j is correct) in the past but they are great houses so, i'd won't include them..

aside from them we have the Westerlings (Jeyne Westerling was queen to Maegor I), Harroways (Alys Harroway was also a queen to Maegor I), Hightowers (Alicent Hightower was the second queen to Viserys I).. Olenna Redwyne almost married a Targaryen (probably Duncan the Small) and if Aerys II had his way, he would have probably married Joanna Lannister..

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My Top Ten at the beginning of AGOT would be

1. Hightower

2. Redwyne

3. Manderly

4-10 (no order)

Frey, Mallister, Bolton, Royce, Florent, Caron, Yronwood

So we have...

North: 2

RL: 2

Reach: 3

Vale: 1

SL: 1

D: 1

No Westerlands thanks to Tywin (which makes a lot of sense given his autocratic, semi-absolute rulership). No Iron Isles as I see the Ironborn as quite decentralized in power (Harlaw would be the only one in my Top20)

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White Harbour (access to the Free Cities!) is about as good a soft power hub as you are going to get in the North, to the extent that you really wonder why the Starks would want to give it to some random Southerner.

Manderly cannot survive in the North without a Stark in Winterfell. In a way, if Manderly makes one misstep the entire North will come howling down and throw them into the sea. They are outsiders, guests, and must keep their noses very clean or quickly go extinct. A stroke of genius from Winterfell, that is now paying dividends centuries later. Also, having some southern flavor makes trade with the rest of the realm easier. Imagine, for instance, flayed corpses hanging from a weirwood? Or the local lord hacking off the heads of wrongdoers? Northern customs seem brutal to outsiders so its a good call to have a loyal Andal running the show in the Norths main center of commerce.

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House Swann is sworn to House Caron, as a Marcher Lord.

The title "Lord of the Marches" wielded by Bryce Caron and now Philip Foote might be an honorific (Mace Tyrell is "Defender of the Marches", even though the lands are not in the Reach) and they might have more prestige than the other marcher lords. However, Caron/Dondarrion/Selmy/Swann are all sworn directly to Storm's End. From the AGOT appendix: "The principal houses sworn to Storm's End are Selmy, Wylde, Trant, Penrose, Errol, Estermont, Tarth, Swann, Dondarrion, and Caron."

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The title "Lord of the Marches" wielded by Bryce Caron and now Philip Foote might be an honorific (Mace Tyrell is "Defender of the Marches", even though the lands are not in the Reach) and they might have more prestige than the other marcher lords. However, Caron/Dondarrion/Selmy/Swann are all sworn directly to Storm's End. From the AGOT appendix: "The principal houses sworn to Storm's End are Selmy, Wylde, Trant, Penrose, Errol, Estermont, Tarth, Swann, Dondarrion, and Caron."

Hmm.. Guess I was wrong.

Anyways it still seems House Caron is the top dog in the Marches, so it should beat House Swann.

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  • 1 year later...
North - 1.Manderlly 2.Dustin
Iron islands - 1.Harlaw
Riverland - 1.Frey 2.Malister 3.Piper
Westerland - 1.Lefford 2.Crakehall/Marbrannd
Vale - 1.Royce
Crownlans - 1.Rosby
Stormland - 1. Swann 2.Caronn
Reach - 1.Hightower 2.Redwyne 3.Tarly
Dorn - 1.Yronwood 2.Fowler

Overall
1.Hightover
2.Redwyne
3.Mandarlly
4.Royce
5.Frey
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