Point as to why Arya would even want to be a Faceless man?

[sertravisredbeard]

There's eleventy bajillion reasons why Arya of all people would jump at the chance to become a Faceless (Wo)Man. Everybody she's ever loved has been killed or abused by dishonorable people who somehow still think they're the good guys. She's been chased up and down a continent by rapers and killers who are given license to commit depraved acts with impunity. Most of the time she's seen someone do good, they're immediately punished for it.

The rules told to her by the Kindly Man might discourage lots of people, but Arya has been breaking rules and surprising people for a long time. Her mother told her little high-born girls had to learn how to knit to be accepted. She's benefitted from being bad at manners and other courtly traditions. At Harrenhall she used the rules about being told to act as a mouse to her advantage. Knowing more about foraging and fighting helped her survived wandering around the Riverlands. A little girl having gone what she's gone through would probably disregard the next institution she's come in contact with's rules as well.

[Wavey Sauce]

Yeah, another great point by Pod the Impaler, and also a quote responded to by Lady Flandrensis that I agree with, especially this point:

Arya does think she has nothing left to live for.

That is something that I always come back to and also believe.

We as the readers know it is not true. We have a mother looking for her. Other people that don't have agendas that do. Jon hoped it was her with the fake Arya stuff. Bran and Rickon are alive. And from my opinion, I believe Gendry would be happy to know she is okay after the Hound debacle. And even the Hound, once he busts loose, I believe would help and probably feels just as bad about her as Sansa at this point. This is where I personally have high hopes for that whole BWB, Jaime, Brienne, Stoneheart, Gendry, Hound, orphanage, EB, web thingie that seems to be welding close together. Well, that thing has other issue/things to accomplish too, but with so much fuss and screen time, I'll be damned if someone of that ilk doesn't run into the Sansa or Arya arc and play a role.

This is where a single instance or a combination will come into play. I am not sure first off if it will be an event, or a run in with people, news she hears, or just she reaches a point thinking and deliberating, or perhaps feeling things, or through experience, or dissatisfaction with what she is doing that is the exact triggers or catalyst(s) to return Arya to Westeros.

But I think it is not just: Return to Westeros. The catalyst comes first, and then Westeros. Then there might be the "reinforcements."

So basically, my trying to deduce scenarios for what is the catalyst that makes her come back to Westeros:

- She's had it with the FM?

- She hears about Jon?

- She is more in tune with Nymeria?

-She dreams something?

-She hears about BWB and/or knows they would help her and goes back, hears about Stoneheart being her mother, something about Gendry?

-Bran, or another sibling "reaches" her?

-She hears news that a sibling or someone is in trouble?

My troubling one is below:

-She is sent on an FM mission/fleeing the FM? - Not sure. She may part with them before. I still see her as honorable as Jon and single-minded. To me, I see her focus and dedication being on wherever her concentration and drive is. This is the weakest one for me. I don't see Arya telling the FM, "Okay, ready for your mission", and in turn she is really trying to get to Westeros to do her Stark business. Now, it could very well be and it is only my opinion of how I see Arya, but I believe she would try to have a clean break, or I hope, so she can focus on only that. I am now leaning on that because I don't' see her getting an assignment from FM and reconciling that with her big KILL LIST. Even in a literary sense, it is just too much for one person to do. Even though, we know very well, that she was thrown a few favors, and the author had some on her list dead not by her hand.

I have to think, I can articulate that last one a bit better….sorry, but I am still thinking on the more I have to say.

Surely there are more.

But right now I am leaning towards one of the catalysts above, and then she decides to go to Westeros….

And it is right before this that we know she is a girl with her mind made up…this is when she retrieves Needle. This moment is Rocky Balboa reaching the steps in Philly. Once she gets Needle it is all about her return to Westeros. Needle obviously has to happen before Westeros.

And she could be up against the same crap she's always been. The odds, bad luck, misfortune, nothing goes her way, nothing works out, and then….somehow Nymeria. I still feel that with Needle and Nymeria, she can do anything. That is her heart, her identity, her old life, her family….and maybe much more.

She got needle more so cause she saw an old familiar face that she hated, snapped in and out if it, she just wanted to kill a bad person in her mind. No proof that that will be the reason she goes back to Westeroes

That said its obvious she will go back at some point, her staying there would be useless for the story, its just more about the circumstances as to why she will go back and the timing in which she does

We semi got off topic tho lol

[Wavey Sauce]

edit- whoops wrong thread

[Wavey Sauce]

After reading her chapters again, the straight encounters she has with some of the FM (mainly the guy who slapped her) It is made pretty clear to her that she cannot just go kill who she wants, and the plagued guy even tells her it might not be for her, and he can sense she is bsing him and that he can see she plans on going after her own targets and has emotional feelings still attached to everything.

Side note- curious as to how the TV series goes with it, because everything so far even the initial talks with Jaquen everything leads it to like the exact opposite, that she can do her own thing etc. But seeing Jaquen as a main character casted for season 5 and most likely no Kindly Man kind of says its going in a whole diff direction anyway (as it has for numerous things) Still interesting tho

[Wavey Sauce]

She got needle more so cause she saw an old familiar face that she hated, snapped in and out if it, she just wanted to kill a bad person in her mind. No proof that that will be the reason she goes back to Westeroes

That said its obvious she will go back at some point, her staying there would be useless for the story, its just more about the circumstances as to why she will go back and the timing in which she does

We semi got off topic tho lol

Sorry on the double

But if she does it feels like she would end up having to just leave or go against the FM wishes or issues they would have with her, and she may not get the full training with all the tools she would need by the time she left, unless maybe she somehow runs into Pate or "Jaquen" and he like watches over her and rougue trains he or something

[Wavey Sauce]

Wouldnt let me edit do to the time gap;

But source of everything I just went though is said heavily in Aryas last chapter prior to TWOW and also a little bit in her Mercy chapter

[Ali Colak]

She's there, because the only person she admired whom she knows to be alive said that it might be a place for her.

Also, what the Kindly Man told Arya was the stuff he probably tells beginners. For example, he doesn't tell her why the first FM brought the gift to the masters, which he says is for another day. We don't know much about the FM's history, their rules and any exceptions to those rules, their mysteries (if we think of the FM almost as a mystery religion) ETC. It may be that to truly kill herself, she must kill someone she hates and someone she loves with equal detachment or something like that. There are a lot of possibilitys.

[seeroftruths]

She was forced to become different identities in westeros and discovering there was a power in being no one or anyone as needed. So naturally when presented with a actual power she can use for vengence she is drawn to it

[Little Member]

But if she forgets who she is in total would she? Yes it does seem like she will become the "stranger" in the whole "7" stark family theory. But even when knowing that way she is learning that you cannot just go kill whomever you like, which is why I dont get why Jaquen told her that at first, when their rules forbid that, and due to the training that there is a real high % chance that you do forget past life for the most part (Or not care enough to think back)

Jaquen may have wanted her to forget about her horrible past and not be blinded by grudges.

[SacredOrderOfGreenMen]

Deep down she knows won't ever become a faceless man . As long any Stark or Nymeria lives she will have a tie to Westros and I doubt that she will take orders very well

:agree: :agree: :bowdown: :bowdown:

You. Are. Right.

[Wavey Sauce]

There's eleventy bajillion reasons why Arya of all people would jump at the chance to become a Faceless (Wo)Man. Everybody she's ever loved has been killed or abused by dishonorable people who somehow still think they're the good guys. She's been chased up and down a continent by rapers and killers who are given license to commit depraved acts with impunity. Most of the time she's seen someone do good, they're immediately punished for it.

The rules told to her by the Kindly Man might discourage lots of people, but Arya has been breaking rules and surprising people for a long time. Her mother told her little high-born girls had to learn how to knit to be accepted. She's benefitted from being bad at manners and other courtly traditions. At Harrenhall she used the rules about being told to act as a mouse to her advantage. Knowing more about foraging and fighting helped her survived wandering around the Riverlands. A little girl having gone what she's gone through would probably disregard the next institution she's come in contact with's rules as well.

The way they go about it though is almost as a brain washing where they try and get recruits to have no feelings, numb to everything and no memory of the past

[Wmarshal]

By that logic the order is coming for Jaqen he's passed the point of no return.

Seeing how is on a mission mostly likely, i don't see your point.

[Wavey Sauce]

Jaquen may have wanted her to forget about her horrible past and not be blinded by grudges.

Why bring up Cersei, Joffrey, etc as a way to lure in a way, telling she can offer them all up and get revenge on them if that is the case with their work

[Darksnider05]

The way they go about it though is almost as a brain washing where they try and get recruits to have no feelings, numb to everything and no memory of the past

Quotes I want quotes stop posting this garbage and get us quotes about this brain washing and memory wiping. Being a weak minded FM would preclude people from being FM.

They would lose themselves the first time they got a face if that was the case.

Evidence of any of what you said being true instead of just specialized training for deep infiltration.

[ShouldabeenaStark]

if Arya does complete all of the training and her memory of her former self is wiped, wouldn't a reunion with Nymeria bring it all back? Isn't Nymeria a part of her, and Arya a part of Nymeria?

[scotcat]

To me it's understandable why the idea of being a FM would be something that Arya is drawn to. As far as she knows, her entire family is dead and the (majority) of the people responsible for this are still around. The notion that you can don a new identity to kill people must be very alluring.

[Wavey Sauce]

Quotes I want quotes stop posting this garbage and get us quotes about this brain washing and memory wiping. Being a weak minded FM would preclude people from being FM.

They would lose themselves the first time they got a face if that was the case.

Evidence of any of what you said being true instead of just specialized training for deep infiltration.

Go read any convo that Arya has in her training with the FM.

Read the convo between her and the plagued face guy who slaps her...........get your own damn qoutes

[Wavey Sauce]

if Arya does complete all of the training and her memory of her former self is wiped, wouldn't a reunion with Nymeria bring it all back? Isn't Nymeria a part of her, and Arya a part of Nymeria?

The play she is acting in it is scary how she never remembers her mom, dad, brothers, joffrey etc, with all the characters being close to replicas, but when she sees polliver that snaps her brain then she remembers to go and kill him lol

[The Bear]

There is nothing guaranteeing that Arya will finish her training. She may just learn what she wants and quit or the House of black and white may kick her out. If either happens, she will now have enough skills to get her kill list completed. Maybe she is the volonqar??(holy spelling)... that kills Cersei, the younger more beautiful Queen...

The valonqar is the little brother, it's not the same thing as the younger and more beautiful queen. The younger and more beautiful queen is supposed to take everything she has before the 'little brother' kills her. Arya could be both, but only if she were wearing faces because Arya is a) female and b ) consistently described as horse-faced, never beautiful.

I am another person who doesn't believe Arya will finish training. She's there because it's a place to be and it seems to hold some promise of revenge in the future.

[Wavey Sauce]

The valonqar is the little brother, it's not the same thing as the younger and more beautiful queen. The younger and more beautiful queen is supposed to take everything she has before the 'little brother' kills her. Arya could be both, but only if she were wearing faces because Arya is a) female and b ) consistently described as horse-faced, never beautiful.

I am another person who doesn't believe Arya will finish training. She's there because it's a place to be and it seems to hold some promise of revenge in the future.

Wow I really think that Arya theory is cool with Cersei, I still think it will be Jaime but that is for damn sure interesting nonetheless, never came across that one

edit- But the FM guild doesnt strike me as a group who would just let someone quit, with the point she is at with all she knows about them