Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Gneisenau

Varys removed Barry from the KG but didn't direct him to Aegon, why ?

47 posts in this topic

"Was it Joffrey's wish to dismiss Ser Barristan Selmy from his Kingsguard too?"

Cersei sighed.

"Joff wanted someone to blame for Robert's death. Varys suggested Ser Barristan.

So Varys influences Joff to dismiss Barristan, As we know Varys wants Aegon (of fAegon) to take the throne, and having Barristan on Aegon's side would be huge plus for Aegon. But Barristan, who did not know Aegon was alive went out to seek Dany. Varys with his network of spies could have easily directed Barristan to the GC and have Barristan meet Aegon and join him but didn't.

So the question is why did Varys miss an opprotunity ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Barristan fought against the Blackfyres in the War of the Ninepenny Kings. Maybe Varys thought Barristan wouldn't fall for an Aegon pretender, especially as no one could prove that he was indeed Rhaegar's son.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thoughts on this.

Maybe Varys thought Selmy would retire, or be killed? I thought I remembered that they were actually going to kill Selmy but wanted to do the show in front of everyone so they wouldn't be outraged.

Maybe Varys thought Selmy would not believe fAegon, and no one would doubt Selmy if he said fAegon was a fake?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thoughts on this.

Maybe Varys thought Selmy would retire, or be killed? I thought I remembered that they were actually going to kill Selmy but wanted to do the show in front of everyone so they wouldn't be outraged.

Maybe Varys thought Selmy would not believe fAegon, and no one would doubt Selmy if he said fAegon was a fake?

So should we consider this more circumstancial evidence that Aegon is fake then ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Barristan fought against the Blackfyres in the War of the Ninepenny Kings. Maybe Varys thought Barristan wouldn't fall for an Aegon pretender, especially as no one could prove that he was indeed Rhaegar's son.

I think this is probably the best answer. I think Selmy, who probably doesn't trust the Spider much anyway, would be very suspicious of Young Griff, and he would recognize Griff (JonCon) right off the bat, add in that he knows how the Golden Company was founded and its history and I'd say Barristan would have a lot of questions. They send him to Dany because she is without question Aerys' daughter and he'll serve her without wondering if she's really a Targaryen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So all these years, they've gone to ridiculous lengths keeping Aegon secret (and at the time of Barristan's dismissal they are nowhere near ready for his unveiling).

Now Varys should go to a man who seamlessly switched sides to Robert, and stood ready to pledge fealty to Robert's successor, and say "hey, I realize these people really want all Targs dead, but guess what, we've got a secret one hidden in Essos and we'd love to have you on board!"???

Right.

There was no way for Varys to know what an enemy of Barristan Joff would make, so no way to approach him before his dismissal. And no one could find him to make the offer afterward. Even if Varys did know where Barristan was hiding, how could he be certain that the disgraced knight wouldn't use the information to regain his place?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Probably because Barristan was sensible and Varys plan (as we know) has been to get rid of people too sensible to be with Cersie and stop her from ruining things.



I doubt it has anything to do with Aegon. Barristan wasn't even at KL when Aegon died. He would have no clue on that matter.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aegon has JonCon, a septa, a half-maester, and a sparring partner.



Dany has Jorah and some Dothraki. I think it's pretty obvious that Dany needs a competent adviser who can tell her the (relatively) current climate of things in Westeros. Jorah has been in exile five years at the beginning of the series. Barry is fresh. Plus Barry probably paid more attention in history class than Jorah did. Having a man such as Barristan Selmy on her side lends legitimacy to Dany's claim once she gets to Westeros. If Selmy thinks she can rule, it might sway some people.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with the sentiment that because Barristan had fought against the Blackfyres, he would be reluctant to join forces with the Golden Company. Also with the fact that it is difficult to know if that is the real Aegon or not, so he would have rather gone with someone who in his view had the better claim to the throne.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Because Daenerys's first strike on Westeros also needs to be effective and believable, hence why she also needs competent supporters. (But not too much)


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a good question. However, I am not sure it was Varys who made the decision. It was Illyrio who sent Barristan and Belwas to Dany. I am not sure who is the boss of the Varys and Illyrio duo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Assuming that Varys and Ilyrio are playing 100% in the same team, sending him to Dany instead made more sense. One reason is that (f)Aegon was still underground at the time Selmy was dismissed, and afterwards they were planning to join (f)Aegon and Dany, remember? By their account eventually Selmy would be with (f)Aegon at a more auspicious time.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don´t think it was varys intention to remove selmy, not to use him for further plots.


If he hadn´t managed to escape, he would sit in a tower or had lost his head.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aegon has JonCon, a septa, a half-maester, and a sparring partner.

Dany has Jorah and some Dothraki. I think it's pretty obvious that Dany needs a competent adviser who can tell her the (relatively) current climate of things in Westeros. Jorah has been in exile five years at the beginning of the series. Barry is fresh. Plus Barry probably paid more attention in history class than Jorah did. Having a man such as Barristan Selmy on her side lends legitimacy to Dany's claim once she gets to Westeros. If Selmy thinks she can rule, it might sway some people.

This.

Plus, Varys has been running Jorah as a spy for Robert Baratheon against Dany, so Varys knows (or knew, at the time) that Jorah can't be trusted with a Targ. Unless you want to speculate that Varys planted Jorah with Dany knowing he'd fall for her and switch allegiance? I wouldn't go that far.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If anyone has already said it, Barristan showing up with a kid that at least looks Targaryean might have clued people in a little too early?


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's simple: Varys can't know for sure how Barristan will react to seeing Aegon. Maybe he'll suspect foulplay. Going to Dany give her a reliable bodyguard and adviser and most importantly someone to verify Jon Connington's identity when the Griffs go meet her.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Logic simply tells that Varys didn't need Barristan for Aegon. Infact, I'd say Varys would've probably thought Barristan would retire given his age/the state of the realm. I didn't think Barristan would end up finding Dany. A welcome twist!


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Barristan was for Aegon. Strong Belwas and Barristan were supposed to return to Pentos with Dany and her Dragons. Not stay with her and take over Slavers Bay.



Varys couldn't risk someone noticing Barristan anywhere near Aegon.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites