RainGhost Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Stannis. He and Robert never got on but Stannis chose to support Robert in his rebellion because it was his duty as younger brother, even though he did not want to commit treason, being the just man that he is. He would have told Robert about the twincest but he didn't think he would believe him; he went to Jon Arryn because he knew Robert trusted him. Victarion a close second. He was dutiful to Balon and he's also dutiful to Euron even though he doens't like him but that's more because he's afraid of kinslaying. He's also planning on taking Dany for himself. Kevan was just a yes man with no mind of his own - that's not duty, it's weakness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Thats because he felt his life was in danger as well, so wanted to get somewhere safe and plan his next move from there. He figured Arryn died because of what they were looking into and felt he would be next So, see, in a "duty and loyalty v. self-preservation" situation, Stannis chose the latter, which simply must cost him points in this category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of the West Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Stannis. He and Robert never got on but Stannis chose to support Robert in his rebellion because it was his duty as younger brother, even though he did not want to commit treason, being the just man that he is. He would have told Robert about the twincest but he didn't think he would believe him; he went to Jon Arryn because he knew Robert trusted him. Victarion a close second. He was dutiful to Balon and he's also dutiful to Euron even though he doens't like him but that's more because he's afraid of kinslaying. He's also planning on taking Dany for himself. Kevan was just a yes man with no mind of his own - that's not duty, it's weakness. And what do you got to base this on? Because I think that you are talking crap. Kevan showed to Cersei that he was entirely able to do a High Sparrow: "No." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpymaster Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Kevan for sure....always obedient...and dutiful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Ser Kevan. Stannis left his brother to die. Vication is plotting to betray his brother even now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yomi Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Kevan was just a yes man with no mind of his own - that's not duty, it's weakness. I very much disagree. Kevan did think for himself. We don't see much of him before Tywin's death, but there is e.g. his plan of securing Darry for Lancel by marrying him to Amy. True enough he agrees to most of Tywin's actions, but that seems to be because he really agrees with them not because he just says yes. And after Tywin's death we see very clearly that he has a mind of his own and doesn't agree to every of Cersei's stupid ideas. Then again, following your older brother because he is clever and you agree with him is a very sweet duty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Reaver Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Look, nothing Kevan and Stannis has had their brother do even comes close to what Vic has put up with. Kevan - nothing at all Stannis - refused a castle Vic - Had his wife seduced and impregnated Tell me if Bobby B had seduced Stannis wife, that he would have remained loayl. He resented Robert just for having sex in his marriage bed, ffs. Imagine if it had been in his bed with his bride. Stannis would have killed him right there. Vic was dutiful to Balon, just as Stannis was to Robert. Stannis wasn't very dutiful to his other brother, and neither is Vic, though he has a more personal reason to want him dead, but didn't, unlike stannis. So yeah, if we take away the "younger" part (which isn't very fair, Vic has two older brothers, Stannis is the middle child), Vic still comes out ahead. If we only count the elder brother, he still is at least as devoted to Balon as Stannis was to Robert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullen Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 If we're only counting Balon and not Euron, then Vic takes it for me. If we aren't, then it's Kevan. Loyal and dutiful to the very end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l2 0 5 5 Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Stannis nearly starved to death along with his wife and his garrison. He held the castle and wouldnt give up under any circumstances, he stayed loyal and kept his word That's one instance of a short list. Kevan has a lifetime and then some of staying loyal to Tywin. I like Stannis as my king, but as everyone else said, he left when he was needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruin Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 This is a great question, but if I had to pick one, it'd have to be Stannis. Ser Kevan is a very close second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmholt Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 I'll vote Kevan. He had other choices and knew it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new djinn Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Kevan. Not once did he hesitate to do his duty while offering valuable contributions. Stannis clearly chafed under Robert leadership. At some point it would crack. Victarion is very dutiful but he seems to have no ideas of his own, so dutifulness out of simple-mindedness is not so impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 I think it is Kevan by a mile. He just doesn't have the same power lust and ambition as the other two. When Balon dies Vic is in a rush to take over instead of Asha, Balon's own daughter. If Kevan were a more power hungray man he could of tried to take CR instead of Cersei and may very well of succeeded, but he would never do that to Tywin's memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Reaver Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 When Balon dies Vic is in a rush to take over instead of Asha, Balon's own daughter. Nope, Vic isn't in a rush to take over. If he was, he simply would command his fleet and stage a military coup. He is, and has been for years, the supreme commander of the elite Ironborn forces, he has their loyalty beyond a doubt. He could easily do this if he wanted to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Vic, all day, Kevan pushed his brother's daughter to strip nude as a power play. Stannis is to cranky and left his brother to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullen Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 When Balon dies Vic is in a rush to take over instead of Asha, Balon's own daughter. Not exactly, Victarion decides to let Euron take over as the Throne is his by rights until his crew and Aeron convince him to try his hand at being King. Balon's succession was an extremely murky business, one that Victarion initially wanted to stay out of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Onion Sleight Posted August 3, 2014 Author Share Posted August 3, 2014 If we are talking about the best or most loyal brother, I'd say Kevan. But Kevan's duty is eased by the fact that there is love and respect amongst the brothers. Kevan doesn't seem to follow Tywin because he cares about duty, but because he believes Tywin is grat and tha best thing that could have happened to house Lannister and Tywin cares a lot for Kevan's advice. The relationship between Balon and Vic seemed to be quiet similar. I'm not sure if Balon cared for Vic's advice, but he certainly valued his battle power.With Euron and Victarion it's different of course. Victarion hates this brother and he didn't kill him only because that would be kinslaying. But obviously he doesn't feel compelled to follow and obey his older brother Euron when Balon dies and Euron comes back from exil. No, he makes his own claim on the kingsmoot. Later, he does as Euron commands, but mostly because he feels bound to the decision of the kingsmoot of which he was part. And when Euron send him to Daenerys to fetch her as Euron's bride he decides to disobey and marry her himself instead. Stannis never felt respected by Robert, still he follows him into rebellion, breaking his beloved law, because he considers the duty to follow his older brother more holy than the duty to follow his king. Even when Robert denies him Storm's End and gives him the much poorer prize of Dragonstone, he remains dutyfully loyal - grudgingly and complaining, but still doing what is required of him by Robert. But indeed, not informing Robert about the incest and hiding at Dragonstone instead seems like treason. We now to little about his reasons to really condemn him, but it certainly makes it difficult to call Stannis the most dutyful. Stannis - remained loyal to his brother even though this was hard for a long time, but seems to have betrayed him at the end.Vic - remained loyal to Balon which was relatively easy, goes against Euron at first, then accepts the decision of the kingsmoot, but finally decides to betray his king.Kevan - remained loyal to Tywin for all his life which was relatively easy, but when Tywin dies he finds it hard to obey Tywin's heiress and doesn't, although this can be defended by saying that he still tries to act in Tywin's and House Lannister's best interest.All that said, I can't really decide on who is the most dutyful brother.That's a great summary :cheers: and shows well, why this question isn't easy to answer for me.(Although I think, I agree with the point of fleeing to Dragonstone when Robert needed Stannis.)Great, different answers so far; I guess, a question is, if being loyal and dutiful to a hated/disliked brother means = "plus points" in this contest, or if this doesn't matter... (And yes, Vic was NOT in a rush to take over the throne, he has generally not much ambitions, it was more an idea of other Ironborn and especially Aeron, who wanted a religious man on the Seastone Chair, no woman like Asha, no godless man like Euron.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelborn Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Definitely poor Kevan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franko99 Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 I have to say Kevan, not only he adrmired his brother and always follow his comands, he still held his brother in high regard after death, and does all he can to continue his "legacy" and work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Song so Sweet Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Look, nothing Kevan and Stannis has had their brother do even comes close to what Vic has put up with. Kevan - nothing at all Stannis - refused a castle Vic - Had his wife seduced and impregnated Tell me if Bobby B had seduced Stannis wife, that he would have remained loayl. He resented Robert just for having sex in his marriage bed, ffs. Imagine if it had been in his bed with his bride. Stannis would have killed him right there. Vic was dutiful to Balon, just as Stannis was to Robert. Stannis wasn't very dutiful to his other brother, and neither is Vic, though he has a more personal reason to want him dead, but didn't, unlike stannis. So yeah, if we take away the "younger" part (which isn't very fair, Vic has two older brothers, Stannis is the middle child), Vic still comes out ahead. If we only count the elder brother, he still is at least as devoted to Balon as Stannis was to Robert. Well Robert did sleep with Stannis' wife sister in the day of the wedding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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