BastardlyRock Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 What I missed was the will, because I take it as the will isn't important or they would have shown it, just my opinion. Ah, you're falling into a common misconception: that they care about remaining faithful to the source ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruin Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Book. No Talisa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbunting Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 No, because if you knew that 2 seasons from now Robbs will will make Jon King, you damn well know you need to show him writing one. If you know that later in the books the will isn't really revelant for whatever reason, he is dead, he is Targaryen, then you don't need to show it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slender Aimry Hill Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Of course the book on the whole had rather more iconic value, but in the TV I particularly enjoyed the weird batsqueak of...potential...sexuality between Cat and Roose, and the substitution of Joyeuse for Jinglebell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 This thread is quite obviously only for people who've read the books and watched the show. People who have only watched the show have nothing to compare it to, so that's a moot point. No, it's not. This forum is for people who have read the books. Most of them read the books before the show came out. Most of the people in this forum universally prefer to the books to the show because that's what they fell in love with first. There's nothing wrong with that, but that makes these type of 'poll threads' useless because the bias in this forum is towards the books. That was my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BastardlyRock Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 No, it's not. This forum is for people who have read the books. Most of them read the books before the show came out. Most of the people in this forum universally prefer to the books to the show because that's what they fell in love with first. There's nothing wrong with that, but that makes these type of 'poll threads' useless because the bias in this forum is towards the books. That was my point. From the position that we pretty much know everyone will already pick the books over the show, sure, we can see that coming. But if you look at it in the sense that people can discuss what the show did well, what the book did well, what both could have done different/better, then it lends itself to constructive conversation. :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Eric Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 No, it's not. This forum is for people who have read the books. Most of them read the books before the show came out. Most of the people in this forum universally prefer to the books to the show because that's what they fell in love with first. There's nothing wrong with that, but that makes these type of 'poll threads' useless because the bias in this forum is towards the books. That was my point. The title of the thread makes it quite clear that it is for people who've both read the books and watched the show. So, I'm unsure as to why you'd bring up people who've only watched the show as they have nothing to compare it to. They are not the sample, just as people who've only read the books are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakin1013 Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 The Book.Reading the red wedding, I constructed in my imagination all of the horrible images of that day/night. I ached at the part when Catelyn talks about her children and pleads to the long dead Ned to make it stop. It was just heartbreaking. The Show Watching the red wedding, I get to hear Rains of Castamere, Catelyn's agonizing, anguished cry near the very end of the slaughter, and the final yelp from GreyWind when he is killed. My imagination supplied all of the red wedding when I read it and I was horrified of it. Watching the red wedding, I saw images that someone else created, and I was horrified of it. I have to pick both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archmaester Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 I love both. The show knocked it out of the park in my opinion. I don't understand the argument that it felt "hollow" and lacked the build-up and dread of the books.... I thought the build up of tension was masterfully handled with the brilliant music (not just the rains of castamere but the more jolly songs before it as well), Catelyn's slow realisation that something is amiss, intercutting with Arya and Grey Wind, and of course the brilliant performances of David Bradley and Michael McElhatton (the look on Roose's face when Catelyn sees the chainmail is genius). Also loved the earlier scenes at the Twins, particularly the actual wedding scene where the happiness of Edmure after seeing Roslin really hit me in the gut the first time I watched it, knowing what was coming next. All in all, one of the most well executed set piece in the show so far, along with Dracarys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HodoringHodor Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 I love how in the book the musicians inside and out were playing different music through the whole feast until they started "the rains of Castamere" and played in perfect unison, also through the killing there was one loan drummer going.. Boom.. Boom.. Boom.. The show also had the rains of castamere playing just before the execution but only readers would know what it was anyway. If they had made a point of playing and explaining the Rains of Castamere earlier in the season the scene would've been more powerful.The Rains of Castamere was both explained and played in the same season and first introduced in the previous season, again with playing it and explaining it.I really don't get the "haha the show can't do anything right" attitude on this board, to the point of talking about the show and stating the opposite of truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesOfHouseMurphy Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 The Rains of Castamere was both explained and played in the same season and first introduced in the previous season, again with playing it and explaining it. I really don't get the "haha the show can't do anything right" attitude on this board, to the point of talking about the show and stating the opposite Im not saying that they didnt have the rains of castamere, sure it was mentioned here and there like when Cersei tells margary about the reynes being the second richest family then says that the tyrells are now 2nd (meaning watch out), but please tell me when before the RW they played the Rains of Castamere and explained the story behind the song, and that Tywin used to send a singer with a harp to treat with rogue bannermen. Infact I would put money on it that nearly all people watching who hadnt read the book had absolutely no idea what the song was or what it meant. Also I'm not saying the show cant do anything right, all I said was that the scene couldve been more powerful, I still absolutely loved it. Last thing is if you're gonna get worked up about people poking holes in the tv series, you should probably avoid forums where the whole point is to poke holes in either the show or the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Im not saying that they didnt have the rains of castamere, sure it was mentioned here and there like when Cersei tells margary about the reynes being the second richest family then says that the tyrells are now 2nd (meaning watch out), but please tell me when before the RW they played the Rains of Castamere and explained the story behind the song, and that Tywin used to send a singer with a harp to treat with rogue bannermen. Infact I would put money on it that nearly all people watching who hadnt read the book had absolutely no idea what the song was or what it meant. Also I'm not saying the show cant do anything right, all I said was that the scene couldve been more powerful, I still absolutely loved it. Last thing is if you're gonna get worked up about people poking holes in the tv series, you should probably avoid forums where the whole point is to poke holes in either the show or the book. They explained the meaning behind the song in the episode right before "Rains of Castamere"...and they featured it throughout the series in seasons 2 and 3, including a sing-along in "Blackwater" with Bronn, Tyrion whistling the song, etc etc. It was even the closing credits music for Blackwater. http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/The_Rains_of_Castamere_(song) Little details about harpists don't matter...the point is that Tywin Lannister slaughtered those who rebelled against him. If people DIDN'T get it by then, then they had not paid any attention at all. It's ridiculous to state that the show didn't feature this song properly or explain it properly before "Rains of Castamere" aired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RainGhost Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 There are things that the book could do that the show just couldn't do, so they compensated for that by going for the shock! factor, which makes for good TV viewing. I read the books first but I can imagine the RW was really shocking for people who didn't know it was coming - there's virtually no clues to it. It was even more brutal than the book because they killed pregnant Talisa in an horrific way. I think they did a good job with it. However, I always prefer books to TV or films. Seeing it all from Catelyn's POV is heartbreaking. And we get Arya's POV as well, how she's so close to being reunited with her family and it turns into a nightmare. The show just can't do that. In the show, a lot of nameless people are killed but reading the book I felt a stab in my heart when Dacey Mormont, the Smalljon and all the other named guards were slaughtered and how they still tried to protect Robb even though they couldn't (maybe the show tried to compensate for this with Talisa, so it wasn't just Catelyn and Robb). Robb's last words: "Jeyne ... Mother ... Grey Wind" everyone who's important to him but none of them can help him. And Catelyn's final thoughts are absolutely gut wrenching: how she claws her face, the hysterical laughter, pleading to Ned.... A lot of this the show just couldn't do for obvious reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alayne's Shadow. Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 I'm not going to choose. They were both masterfully done and both had the correct "atmosphere". I liked the addition of Talisa in the show, and I liked the way Catelyn dies in both. Anyone who says the scene in the show wasn't as effective is letting their love for the books cloud their judgment. It's considered one of the most shocking moments in tv history now. People put up videos of other people screaming and crying. The show did its job, but people are almost always partial to the version they experienced first.So there. I dreaded it in both versions (I knew what would happen before I ever read it), and in both versions it was absolutely devestating.I respectfully disagree. The Talisa addition made the wedding much more about 'shock value' than what It was in the books, the death of two beloved characters and the fall of the Stark cause itself. Season 3 mishandled Robb and Cat a lot, and therefore, the RW didn't had the same emotional impact. Catelyn was barely there, most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alayne's Shadow. Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 We had no Dacey in the show :crying:I agree with Mark, the books by a country mile imo. The review by Ran and Linda that has been posted accurately reflects my feelings on the matter. Adding Talisa in.was a poor choice imo, it made Robb seem even more foolish, and disregards his arguments against doing so in the books. Killing her also seemed to me like D and D just wanted the "shock value" and to show they can kill characters just as much as GRRM, which is.how.I felt about Grenn and Pyp too. They killed her to appear "shocking" rather than to really add anything. IMO anyway.Anyway, the book RW was just so eerie and tense from start to finish. From the pounding music and uncomfortable atmosphere, the unhappy wedding, the moment that Rains begins to play and you are waiting, waiting, for.something to happen... But the real deal breaker for me was Catelyn's utter despair at the end. The despair of a mother who has lost her father, brother, children, husband, everything,.and has nothing to live for. Just...I can't even... :crying:This. Also, I felt they should have built more on Robb's bannermen and Robb and Cat. The show gave too much focus on Talisa, truth be told. Every scene she was in, I was just reminded how much I prefer Jeyne Westerling. Talisa 'Spunky Essosi anachronistic girl' didn't do it, for me. Robb and Cat's connection could be given much more focus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 This. Also, I felt they should have built more on Robb's bannermen and Robb and Cat. The show gave too much focus on Talisa, truth be told. Every scene she was in, I was just reminded how much I prefer Jeyne Westerling. Talisa 'Spunky Essosi anachronistic girl' didn't do it, for me. Robb and Cat's connection could be given much more focus. I must confess, shameful as it is, I thought the moment where Wendel Manderly rises ponderously to his feet, brandishing a leg of mutton... it was horrible, truly, sad yes...but there was something rather comic in a twisted sort of way about that image in my head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghosts in winterfell Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Naturally the book scenes are better because we're inside Cat's head, but gods be damned if I don't tear up every time I watch it. Michelle Fairely slayed. I s2g if the rumors of Lady Stoneheart's exclusion from the show are true... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alayne's Shadow. Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 I must confess, shameful as it is, I thought the moment where Wendel Manderly rises ponderously to his feet, brandishing a leg of mutton... it was horrible, truly, sad yes...but there was something rather comic in a twisted sort of way about that image in my head As different as it was, Wendel was cast and died on the RW-show! version. Comically Tragic. Wished it was on the show. Dacey and LittleJon, along with him, being more explored, and given attention, could have made the show have a more dreaded climate. I honestly don't think It's time. They had four identical scenes in season 3 where we are reminded that Shae is a whore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Yes Michelle Fairley was incredible which makes it even more of a shame that her character was reduced to nothingness in the tv series :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 As different as it was, Wendel was cast and died on the RW-show! version. Comically Tragic. Wished it was on the show. Dacey and LittleJon, along with him, being more explored, and given attention, could have made the show have a more dreaded climate. I honestly don't think It's time. They had four identical scenes in season 3 where we are reminded that Shae is a whore. I'm glad you understood what I meant about Wendel. I thought I would sound like some sick and twisted individual :P ETA: Yes Michelle Fairley was incredible which makes it even more of a shame that her character was reduced to nothingness in the tv series :( Michelle :crying: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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