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Jon & Dany TWINS?!


LadySaeryn

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Not at all. Even if it were true, that would be giving it away.

No, if it were true, that would be lying and GRRM has said that he is not a liar. Unless he were lying about not being a liar, in which case there is absolutely no reason to discuss what he's said because there would be no way to judge the validity of it.

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Sorry, but I cannot remember the difference from that age. Neither, I think, can Dany. A 3-year old and a 4-year old, or a 4-year old and a 5-year old, might be harder to tell apart. And that's what matters.

Sure a baby couldn't remember that. However the people around the baby would.

Well ... the dragon does have 3 heads. And Alfie Allen's comment about a "Luke Skywalker" situation might count as, at least, a clue.

Because Rhaegar was always right and he had to be right about that. Also as far as he knew there were 3 heads of the dragon without his sister. And finally "Luke" situation has many more possibilities which they happen to have textual proofs than something with no proof none so ever.

Right. No proof. No proof. No proof. No proof. But I thought people were trying to rule out the POSSIBILITY.

There is no possibility, with no textual proofs no common sense no anything it's called a fan fiction. We know from the author himself that Dany was born 8-9 months after Jon, so it is impossible to be his twin sister.

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GRRM may have just meant the I am your father thing with Luke Skywalker, might not have even been thinking about the sister.

Yes. Specially since if it was the EXACT same situation, it would be very silly. I mean... Star Wars is a known story. What's next, Jon gets a boat with a jerk-but-not-really captain and Dany falls for this guy (who's btw being chased by the Iron Bank)?

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2- It is widely known that Rhaella was pregnant and gave birth to Dany on Dragonstone, but that could be a lie. Dany knows nothing of her childhood in Westeros and her only source of info is Viserys.

3- If Rhaella didn't give birth to Dany, why did she die, and how? Could she have been pregnant, but died with her baby in childbirth? That could be a great opportunity to pretend Dany was the child.

Presumably, if the theory is true, Rhaella would have died giving birth to the OTHER Dany, the one who was smuggled away by Willem Darry, and ultimately fostered with the Manderlys under the name "Wylla Manderly", with her hair died green to hide her Targ looks. (or something like that).

4- How did Dany end up with Viserys and wouldn't he remember if she wasn't his sister?

As far as I know, Willem Darry only smuggled away one child. So Viserys and Dany would have to be united, or reunited, at a later date in any event. The "how" is unknown, but is not a problem for the theory, because it is in both cases unanswered. And why would Viserys remember a child he had never seen?

5- The dragon has three heads. This theory only gives us two. It's possible that Lyanna could have given birth to triplets, but that's just an overkill. Who knows?

I've been giving some thought to a third, but am not yet ready to face the inevitable howls of outrage.

6- Who helped Ned with covering up Dany's parentage? Ser Willem?

Presumably someone else, if the theory is true. Dany remembers someone, who we (and she) assume was Willem. But he would not use his real name in any event.

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GRRM told Alfie Allen that Jon's story resembles that of Luke Skywalker.

As Gwen's leaping into the 'Star Wars' world..... Oh! Brienne of Tarth is.....!

How on Dantooine did we miss that? New Star Wars Movie is subtitled..... Heir To The Empire!

We've all been served with all kinds of distractions through the books. The Others are the real heroes, maybe?

it gets you wondering. Jon is none other than.....

I've pulled this part out. Why spoil the fun?

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Sorry, but I cannot remember the difference from that age. Neither, I think, can Dany. A 3-year old and a 4-year old, or a 4-year old and a 5-year old, might be harder to tell apart. And that's what matters.

Actually there are definite development phase differences: A 9 month old baby might already be babbling mama and dada. A newborn cannot. A 9 month old baby can sit upright. A newborn can't even lift its head. A 9 month old baby will move around in some way (crawling, on the bottom, shuffling around on the stomach, ...), a newborn cannot. And there are other phases in the first 5 years. You may not remember it, but someone who has had kids would know for sure.

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Welcome to the forums! :cheers:

How Jon's story be similar to Luke's; 3: His father was the "enemy" whose actions caused a war and the death of his family.

Thanks!! :grouphug: Yeah thought about that, but Luke doesn't find out about Vader till he fights him. Rhaegar wasn't even a bad guy as far as we can tell.

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Thanks!! :grouphug: Yeah thought about that, but Luke doesn't find out about Vader till he fights him. Rhaegar wasn't even a bad guy as far as we can tell.

Well he did his best to create mayhem and destraction. He may wasn't a *bad guy* but his actions were just like Anakin. He felt to the dark side because he wasn't a bad guy and he cared about his wife but he created or better participated at the war.

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No, according to Allen, GRRM told him who Jon's parents were and Alfie Allen is the one who likened it to Luke Skywalker.

There are trees in Braavos, in the courtyards of the mighty. This is almost surely where Dany and Viserys - two scions of a royal house - would have stayed. They were never in hiding and would have had no reason to live well below their means until their means started to dry up. Even when they left Braavos, they guested with the mighty throughout the Free Cities. Then, when their means really started drying up, they were hosted with Illyrio. But the big thing to keep in mind here is that they were never in hiding. There were always eyes on the two young Targaryens. There is absolutely no indication that the last two known Targaryens were exactly as they claimed to be or that one of them appeared out of thin air one day or that one of them was switched with another.

I always understood that GRRM was the one who linked Jon to Luke. Must have misunderstood.

Braavos could have any kind of trees, but not lemon trees. Lemon trees grow in Dorne.

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Braavos could have any kind of trees, but not lemon trees. Lemon trees grow in Dorne.

Absolutely sure? So, entire Plentos' production of lemons is from Dorne? There is not one lemon three anywhere in the world beside Dorne? And, furthermore, where did you all got that idea that there are no lemon trees in Braavos? I mean, Arya and Dany certainly DID NOT STAY at the same places.

God be good, if someone asks of us one more time "let we pretend this is true", I will be merciful in mocking that thread and logic as Mountain was merciful to Aegon's head. It's like a plea to completely disregard what you have read in ASOIAF, and read the whatever version these theorists have in mind (BTW, how difficult is it to actually check the data? I mean, it's even sad how they don't try)...

Once again: timeline people, timeline. That's kinda a biggie in this world...

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GRRM may have just meant the I am your father thing with Luke Skywalker, might not have even been thinking about the sister.

Thought about that, but if Rhaegar is Jon's father then wouldn't that be impossible? Unless he comes back as a fire breathing zombie who's intent on destroying Westeros. Now that would be cool!

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Absolutely sure? So, entire Plentos' production of lemons is from Dorne? There is not one lemon three anywhere in the world beside Dorne? And, furthermore, where did you all got that idea that there are no lemon trees in Braavos? I mean, Arya and Dany certainly DID NOT STAY at the same places.

God be good, if someone asks of us one more time "let we pretend this is true", I will be merciful in mocking that thread and logic as Mountain was merciful to Aegon's head. It's like a plea to completely disregard what you have read in ASOIAF, and read the whatever version these theorists have in mind (BTW, how difficult is it to actually check the data? I mean, it's even sad how they don't try)...

Once again: timeline people, timeline. That's kinda a biggie in this world...

Umm ok you really don't have to be rude about it. We're all fans here, we all read the books and we all have our own opinions. You really don't have to take everything in here so seriously. Lighten up a bit.

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I always understood that GRRM was the one who linked Jon to Luke. Must have misunderstood.

Braavos could have any kind of trees, but not lemon trees. Lemon trees grow in Dorne.

Here's the interview so you can see for yourself.

Ah, I see. So the lemon trees in Dorne got together decided to keep their root pure and thus any efforts for seeds or saplings to be transported will end in immediate death of that part of the root?

Seriously, think about this. Dany and Viserys lived a wealthy life in Braavos and beyond. In the courtyards of the mighty, anything can be found. Including a goddamn lemon tree. We aren't talking about a functional orchard here. Merely a rich man's ornament in a courtyard.

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"As far as I know, Willem Darry only smuggled away one child. So Viserys and Dany would have to be united, or reunited, at a later date in any event. The "how" is unknown, but is not a problem for the theory, because it is in both cases unanswered. And why would Viserys remember a child he had never seen?"



Why do you think only one?



http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Willem_Darry



After King Aerys II Targaryen learned of the death of Prince Rhaegar Targaryen at the Trident, the Mad King sent Queen Rhaella Targaryen and Prince Viserys Targaryen to Dragonstone, presumably with Willem.[5] After Aerys's death in the Sack of King's Landing and Rhaella's death during labour, the garrison of Dragonstone considered selling the two Targaryen children, Viserys and the infant Daenerys, to the new king, Robert Baratheon. However, before the garrison could come to a decision and before Stannis Baratheon arrived for his assault on Dragonstone, Willem and four loyal men smuggled Viserys and Daenerys from the island and fled to safety in Braavos.[3] In Braavos, Willem lived with Viserys and Daenerys in the house with the red door

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Well this may sound crackpot... If Rhaegar got his mother Rhaella pregnant to prevent Aerys from hurting her and R+L = J then Daenerys and Jon could be brother and sister I guess not twins though.

So he's Oedipus now?

It doesn't sound crackpot, it sounds more like

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/91326-why-is-rickon-so-wild/

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