GRRM: Some fans "have correctly predicted the ending"

[Lord Grumkin 2]

I think he meant the Ragnarök theory.

Beware, heavy spoilers - http://gameofthronesandnorsemythology.blogspot.cz/2013/05/ragnarok-song-of-ice-fire.html

[Shinjuku Thief]

GRRM also said in another interview in 2011 that his wife Parris sometimes visited forums and told him about important theories. Moreover, fans send letters to GRRM with their theories and ask questions. Of course he knows a lot about fan's guesses.

This isn't the first time he's said this, I'm sure of it. Now just to find the source.

[White Ravens]

Gods, I wish the OP or a Mod would change the misleading title of this thread! GRRM makes no mention of readers predicting the end in that link.

[UnmaskedLurker]

So let's talk this through.

If R+L=J is supposedly the biggest mystery in the novels, and Jon therefore represents Ice and Fire... so what? He still has to do something with that Song. It would be like finding out Strider was Aragorn and then the story ended. That can't be the big mystery.

As for Jon representing Ice and Fire because of his Stark/Targ, I don't buy it. Rhaegar has already proven that wrong.

Here are some "subtle clues" that I picked up on: Rhaegar called TPTWP Aegon's song The Song of Ice and Fire, and Aegon did not have an Ice parent. Rhaegar obviously did not think it necessary. He just needed a third head. Rhaegar knew the prophecy way better than you or me. So did Aemon, and Aemon had no problem naming Dany TPTWP despite her lack of Ice parentage as well.

So, I do not believe that the two characters in the books most familiar with the prophecy know better than you or me.

The great mystery has to be much deeper.

I have seen that argument about Rhaegar and Aemon before--maybe from you--and I have thought through my answer for you. At the time they formed those conclusions, they had no reason to think TPTWP would be ASOIAF, personified. As others have noted, ASOIAF will mean more than one thing, and if all one is told is that TPTWP will have a song--ASOIAF, it will not necessarily come to mind that TPTWP needs to be ASOIAF, personified. Thus, there is no reason for Rhaegar or Aemon to think Aegon could not be TPTWP. Only after Rhaegar finds out that Elia cannot have more children and only after Rhaegar decides that he would have a child with Lyanna would the fire/ice connection between R/L become apparent.

I believe it overwhelmingly likely that once Rhaegar decided to have the third head of the dragon with Lyanna,he would have realized that she is ice to his fire and would have realized that their child would be ASOIAF, personified. At that point, I believe he changed his view from Aegon to Jon (or whatever name R planned to give J) in terms of who would be TPTWP. Rhaegar would not miss the ice connection once he was determined to have a head of the dragon with Lyanna. But if he had the third head with Elia, it never would have occurred to him that TPTWP could be ASOIAF personified. He needed the added information that he was going to have a child with Lyanna, a girl of the North, to make this connection. At the time of the HotU vision, Rhaegar had not yet decided to have a child with Lyanna, so the thought simply would not have occurred to him yet.

[Pod The Rod]

Out of the thousands of different theories given here on the ending, I would be astonished if one of them hadn't been right.

[Lord Damian]

Ned to Cersei "Robert had the better claim" = Ned has a claim and so do his kids. Also, Baratheon line is almost extinct. Starks move up the totem pole.

Ned to Robert "Kings are a rare sight up North". Robert's response to where are the people? "They are hiding under the snow".

Ned has been hiding Rheagar's legitimate son by Layana Stark = Jon Snow (The true king of Westeros)

tyrion to himself "my toung will be the death of me" = Tyrion will smart off to the wrong person and die

[Game Of Thrones]

And now we guess what old* theories are going to pan out to be true! (*He notes that he stopped reading fan forums back in the '90s, so we're likely dealing with pre-SoS theories.) I'll get the obvious out of the way ...

... Jon Stargaryen, everyone.

He also says that some people send him their theories. So it's non necessarily pre-ASOS.

[Wmarshal]

Welp. One thing I can say. "One or two readers" isn't a pinned thread of thousands of pages.

So this proves nothing about any of the more popular theories. It could mean anything.

Hot Pie will rule all.

[Wmarshal]

Ned to Cersei "Robert had the better claim" = Ned has a claim and so do his kids. Also, Baratheon line is almost extinct. Starks move up the totem pole.

Ned to Robert "Kings are a rare sight up North". Robert's response to where are the people? "They are hiding under the snow".

Ned has been hiding Rheagar's legitimate son by Layana Stark = Jon Snow (The true king of Westeros)

tyrion to himself "my toung will be the death of me" = Tyrion will smart off to the wrong person and die

None that we seen, his family tree has no Targ relation to it from the time of Rhaenyra. The Velaryons, Plumms, and the two other families Eleana wed into had better claims.

[Arakan]

It's time for a new book.

[Mithras]

Seriously though, I think R+L=Lightbringer is the best theory I have read so far.

[Dementia]

I may certainly be, and probably am, in the minority who think R+L=J was obvious. I know many here believe that not many people could have figured this out without googling and reading the theory. Some even say that's how they started to believe it. That's fine.

However.

"Prince disses his wife, and kidnaps beautiful noble girl. She ends up dead in a bed of blood. Her brother comes home with a baby of mysterious origin."

I think that is just about the least subtle thing ever. From the very moment Jon's mother is revealed as a mystery, the average reader would be looking for clues. GRRM conveniently handed us the Rhaegar and Lyanna story.

Way to0 obvious to be "subtle" and that's just the first book.

If GRRM is including up to 1999, for argument's sake, that's GoT and ACoK. That could include anything from the role of Mance in the story, to what Dany's visions in the HoTU mean, to Bran warging a dragon, to maybe the Others are the good guys, to many, many other theories way less obvious than "Prince kidnaps pretty girl and they have a secret baby."

IMO

Huzzah! I completely agree. It seemed obvious to me and I was pretty surprised people didn't get it when I stumbled on this forum. Of course, I could be wrong...*that* would be a twist if all the "clues" and foreshadowing led to something I missed.

With that said, "...the extremely subtle and obscure clues that I'd planted in the books..." I don't think he can be talking about R+L=J or he's giving himself way too much credit for "hiding" the story.

[Frey family reunion]

Seriously though, I think R+L=Lightbringer is the best theory I have read so far.

I agree (and if you read my gushing posts in that thread it should be obvious). GRRM is a tricky bird, so I'm not really sure how much to read into that article. I did find two things interesting. First, he admitted that he is putting very subtle clues within the books. This makes me more inclined to believe that some of his references are in fact clues as opposed to mere references. Second, why is he spending this much time reading fan theories on message boards when he still has two (possibly three) more books to finish. :bang:

[sj4iy]

I think people have lost sight of something important in these arguments...this is the author talking. He cannot, by definition, know how "subtle" or "obscure" his clues and hints are because he can't be objective about it. Whatever he uses to describe them may or may not fit what we, the audience, think about them.

[Cas Stark]

I think people have lost sight of something important in these arguments...this is the author talking. He cannot, by definition, know how "subtle" or "obscure" his clues and hints are because he can't be objective about it. Whatever he uses to describe them may or may not fit what we, the audience, think about them.

Maybe. But, I think he may have two sets of clues. The first set....fairly easy to follow if you are reading closely...like who is Jon Snow. Those clues aren't that subtle, despite the fact that many people read the books and never picked up on them. The second set, more subtle and obscure, so if for example the Red Viper did poison Tywin...that would be a more subtle set of clues than who are Jon's real parents....

However, sadly, when GRRM says this kind of stuff it only will cause a tripling down of crackpot theories as everyone revists their own idea of the clues.

[UnmaskedLurker]

Maybe. But, I think he may have two sets of clues. The first set....fairly easy to follow if you are reading closely...like who is Jon Snow. Those clues aren't that subtle, despite the fact that many people read the books and never picked up on them. The second set, more subtle and obscure, so if for example the Red Viper did poison Tywin...that would be a more subtle set of clues than who are Jon's real parents....

However, sadly, when GRRM says this kind of stuff it only will cause a tripling down of crackpot theories as everyone revists their own idea of the clues.

I disagree. GRRM said readers came to "the right solution." He was talking about something in particular of great importance to the story. Something like whether the Red Viper poisoned Tywin (or anything like that) just cannot qualify. There are only a small number of mysteries that qualify as "the right solution" and R+L=J is the best candidate. You may not think the clues are subtle, but I strongly believe that GRRM believes that his clues were subtle. He may be wrong--that is a subjective question--but the objective question is whether GRRM has this belief. I am quite confident that he does. If he did not think it was subtle, he never would have suggested that he ever even considered changing any plot points. He simply would have said--I expected people to figure it out. But he did not, and I think he is correct. The average person coming to this board is not the average reader. The average reader would be quite unlikely to figure out R+L=J because most readers just follow the plot--most readers don't analyze the clues closely. People who come to this board do.

[mb2518]

Even so, D&D have called the ending "creatively satisfying." If Jon does sit the IT, it won't be rightful heir gets his throne back things were much simpler from that point on.

[MegaMagick]

Thankfully that means all the Jon and Dany theories aren't true.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

Sorry, but I doubt he hasn't seen any Internet forum since 15 years ago. That's just a lie.

:lol: What? You don't just stumble across forums unless you're actually looking for them. At least that's my experience.

[Cas Stark]

Thankfully that means all the Jon and Dany theories aren't true.

It would seem to rule out any of the most obvious choices if only person has put it all together correctly. Dany, Stannis or Jon are the most obvious candidates to win the IT in the end...