The Tattered prince (and ser Baristtan)

[Areo Speedwagon]

If Selmy hears that Rhaegar's son is still alive and fighting for the iron throne in westeros, Selmy will feel obligated to switch to Aegons side. Aegon being the rightful heir, Selmy swore a vow and is a man of his word

Wouldn't that be bittersweet like Martin? Barristan is racked as what to do because he finally feels like he's serving someone worthy in Dany, but Aegon is the heir. He begrudgingly decides to go with Aegon only to find a petulant teen and Varys pulling the strings. He'd be crushed...

[Veltigar]

Dany does not actually speak to the Tattered Prince himself but rather through Meris and Selmy. It is in the aDwD chapter in which Dany flies off on Drogon's back from the fighting pits.

Ser Barristan lowered his voice, "Your Grace. We set the woman Meris free as you commanded. Before she went, she asked to speak with you. I met her instead. She claims this Tattered Prince meant to bring the Windblown over to your cause from the beginning. That he sent her here to treat with you secretly, but the Dornishmen unmasked them and betrayed them before she could make her own approach."

Treachery upon treachery, the queen thought wearily. Is there no no end to it? "How much of this do you believe, ser?"

"Little and less, Your Grace, but those were her words."

"Will they come over to us if need be?"

"She says they will, but for a price."

"Pay it." Meereen needed iron, not gold.

"The tattered Prince will want more than coin, your Grace. Meris says that he wants Pentos."

"Pentos?" Her eyes narrowed. "How can I give him Pentos? It is half a world away."

"He would be willing to wait, the woman Meris suggested. Until we march for Westeros."

And if I never march for Westeros? "Pentos belongs to the Pentoshi. And Magister Illyrio is in Pentos. He who arranged my marriage to Kahl Drogo and gave me my dragon eggs. Who sent me you, and Belwas, and Groleo. I owe him much and more. I will not repay that debt by giving his city to some sell sword. No."

Ser Barristan inclined his head. "Your Grace is wise."

This convo is all we need to know that the Prince will get the chance to take Pentos (and will probably succeed). After Tatters has proven his loyalty (by rescuing the hostages, though I doubt Daario is in much need of rescue. Betrayal for gold I'm sure) and Tyrion (or someone else) drops the Faegon bomb, she'll be more than willing to take him up on his offer.

I'm sure Tatters has some nice things to reveal about Illyrio. After all, Illyrio appears to be the most powerful magister. The nobility, to which Tatters belonged, hate the magisters with a passion. I'm sure Tatters, through his sources might have interesting info about Illyrio's heritage and the magisters involvement in other schemes.

Daenerys will then approve of the raid on Pentos. After all, she has a capable and loyal governor (or ally if Tatters rules in his own name) in Tatters. What's more, Tatters will probably have the backing of the traditional nobility who despise the magisters. Ccouple that to the lower classes (consisting of slaves in all but name) who will rally to his case because of Daenerys backing and he should have a fairly easy time taking the city.

[AdmiralKyrd]

What is with the people in this forum and killing Selmy. Everyone keeps on saying Selmy will die. Its just so weird. I think Selmy would survive very long and if he dies, I see it in the 7th book or beyond. He is a interesting character and a good character for Dany. He is a good role model who can properly educate Dany about Westeros. One thing that happened to Dany from the beginning is that she has very warped knowledge about what happened in the rebellion and about Westeros. Her knowledge was basically Viserys who was a nutcase. Jorah who is just infatuated with her and a criminal. Selmy is someone who has experience in Westeros and has seen kings rule and have been in different events. He is someone who is knowledgeable and can properly show Dany towards the right path.

Because Selmy is the Meereenese analog of Ned Stark. He is an honor bound man starting to play "the game" and he is making progress unraveling the secret knots that bind Meereen. The hostages, the poisoned locusts... he actually is on the right path but he is just not that quick in the analytic sense. The closer Barristan gets the more he is in danger. Eventually the danger will arrive in front of him and he won't even notice until it is too late.

[Veltigar]

What is with the people in this forum and killing Selmy. Everyone keeps on saying Selmy will die. Its just so weird. I think Selmy would survive very long and if he dies, I see it in the 7th book or beyond. He is a interesting character and a good character for Dany. He is a good role model who can properly educate Dany about Westeros. One thing that happened to Dany from the beginning is that she has very warped knowledge about what happened in the rebellion and about Westeros. Her knowledge was basically Viserys who was a nutcase. Jorah who is just infatuated with her and a criminal. Selmy is someone who has experience in Westeros and has seen kings rule and have been in different events. He is someone who is knowledgeable and can properly show Dany towards the right path.

I know right it's almost comical. Don't get me wrong, I think he'll likely die in tWoW to, but I think dieing in the Second Dance is a far more likely prospect than dieing in Meereen.

[Mithras]

I think Selmy is highly foreshadowed to die by Victarion's axe after the Battle of Fire.

The latest TWoW information reveals that;

1. Dany will stay much longer with the Dothraki than anticipated, which I take as she will miss both the Battle of Meereen and the confrontation with the Volantene Fleet.

Therefore, much of the Meereneese Knot will be resolved without the presence of Dany and the tools to solve it are sharp wits (Tyrion) and a sharp axe (Victarion).

2. Victarion plans to blow the horn as soon as the battle is joined and the dragons are sighted. In the battle, Viseron retreats to its lair while Rhaegal is still circling over the ships of Victarion.

Hence, GRRM is giving Rhaegal to Victarion. He will have the horn blown in the hearing of Rhaegal and become its rider.

I think after the Battle of Meereen is won, Victarion will want to take control of the city and Barristan/Jorah/Daario/Hizdahr (in short no one) will want to see that, except Tyrion. I think Tyrion will find a way to join Victarion because those two are the exact opposites and GRRM likes to toss such characters together.

How Victarion will take control of Meereen will be similar to this:

“The Knight’s to have Greyshield. My cousin. Did you hear?”

“No.” Victarion looked across the hall, to where Ser Harras Harlaw sat drinking wine from a golden cup; a tall man, long-faced and austere. “Why would Euron give that one an island?”

Hotho held out his empty wine cup, and a pale young woman in a gown of blue velvet and gilt lace refilled it for him. “The Knight took Grimston by himself. He planted his standard beneath the castle and defied the Grimms to face him. One did, and then another, and another. He slew them all . . . well, near enough, two yielded. When the seventh man went down, Lord Grimm’s septon decided the gods had spoken and surrendered the castle.”

“Seven, you say.” Victarion wondered how Nightfall would fare against his axe. He had never fought a man armed with a Valyrian steel blade, though he had thrashed young Harras Harlaw many a time when both of them were young.

I think Victarion will challenge for the rulership of Meereen and Barristan will have to agree. It will be a legal contest, so the casualties will not be murder.

He [Victarion] would give half his teeth for the chance to try his axe against the Kingslayer or the Knight of Flowers.

“Beyond it, by the canal, that’s the temple of Aquan the Red Bull. Every thirteenth day, his priests slit the throat of a pure white calf, and offer bowls of blood to beggars.”

Victarion is likened to a bull many times. Pure white calf might be a reference to the KG in their white cloaks.

Next a bull was set against a bear in a bloody battle that left both animals torn and dying.

Foreshadowing the death of Jorah by Victarion’s axe. Victarion has Moqorro for those wounds while Jorah has none.

He [Moqorro] had seen the wench [Dany] wed too, but what of it? She would not be the first woman Victarion Greyjoy had made a widow.

Foreshadowing the death of Hizdahr by Victarion’s axe once he takes control of Meereen.

Also we should note that before joining the Battle of Fire, Barristan leaves the charge of the city to the Widower, a large sellsword captain with a large axe. We should also remember that Barristan likened the arrival of Victarion to the Battle of Fire as the Hammer and Anvil. Noting that the Anvil ended up killing the Hammer in a tourney mishap, one of them seems like goner and that one will be Barristan.

Ser Barristan felt very tired, very old. Where have all the years gone? Of late, whenever he knelt to drink from a still pool, he saw a stranger’s face gazing up from the water’s depths.

Stranger is the god of death according to Barristan. Krakens are said to rise from the water's depths. Barristan seeing a stranger's face gazing up from the depths means that a kraken is coming to slay him.

I think Daario will be one of the challengers to Victarion too, if he can be saved alive in time.

After the dust in Meereen is settled, Victarion will turn his eye to the Volantene Fleet. By the way I don’t think Rhaegal is big enough to carry Victarion yet, so he will be with the ships. But I think he will bring Rhaegal to battle as a moral boost, not for fighting. The place where he will crush the Volantene Fleet is this:

When the cliffs of Yaros appeared off their larboard bows, he found his three lost ships waiting for him, just as Moqorro had promised. Victarion gave the priest a golden torque as a reward.

Now he had a choice to make: should he risk the straits, or take the Iron Fleet around the island? The memory of Fair Isle still rankled in the iron captain’s memory. Stannis Baratheon had descended on the Iron Fleet from both north and south whilst they were trapped in the channel between the island and the mainland, dealing Victarion his most crushing defeat. But sailing around Yaros would cost him precious days. With Yunkai so near, shipping in the straits was like to be heavy, but he did not expect to encounter Yunkish warships until they were closer to Meereen.

What would the Crow’s Eye do? He brooded on that for a time, then signaled to his captains. “We sail the straits.”

He will descend on to the Volantene Fleet and catch them unawares while they are passing the Straits of Yaros thanks to the precise GPS data supplied by Moqorro. So, the numerical advantage of the Volantene will prove worthless in the narrow straits. After seeing the dragon over their heads and the combined fleet of Victarion, the slaves will see that the defeat is close and they will turn their cloaks.

[Ygrain]

I think Selmy is highly foreshadowed to die by Victarion's axe after the Battle of Fire.

Thanks for the link. I'm not sure I fully agree with your premises but it is possible that in Dany's absence, Tyrion might buy his life by offering his dragonlore and that if - if- it comes to a duel, Barristan may not survive it. Now, if Victarion survives the duel (regardless with whom) due to Moquorro's magic and if all/most of him look the way his hand does, before Dany returns, it would fulfill the second part of the mount triplet - one to dread. And here is where I think that Jorah might enter - redeem himself by killing Vic but being mortally wounded (unless he is going tobe the betrayal for love, though I think that he might be a bit obvious and there can be other candidates).

[Mithras]

Thanks for the link. I'm not sure I fully agree with your premises but it is possible that in Dany's absence, Tyrion might buy his life by offering his dragonlore and that if - if- it comes to a duel, Barristan may not survive it. Now, if Victarion survives the duel (regardless with whom) due to Moquorro's magic and if all/most of him look the way his hand does, before Dany returns, it would fulfill the second part of the mount triplet - one to dread. And here is where I think that Jorah might enter - redeem himself by killing Vic but being mortally wounded (unless he is going tobe the betrayal for love, though I think that he might be a bit obvious and there can be other candidates).

That is a convoluted theory but "the stranger's face" and "the hammer&anvil" seal the deal for me for Vicky slaying Barristan.

Even Victarion should not be dumb enough to take the control of the city by force (and especially kill Dany's freedmen in the process) if he ever hopes to marry Dany. However, a legal duel in the sight of gods and men would spare bloodshed and it will not be considered as murder.

I also find your suggestion about Victarion being the mount to dread fascinating. I was already considering Victarion as one of the candidates for the mount to dread but him getting terribly wounded, then "healed" by Moqorro and turning into a half-undead brute is a nice idea.

[Sword of the Morgan]

Seems possible to me that he was the man that was killed by the dragons and not Quentyn Martell, in which case he would do nothing in TWoW.

[aryagonnakill#2]

^ Seems possible you didn't read ADWD.

[A Bastard Brother]

I think Selmy is highly foreshadowed to die by Victarion's axe after the Battle of Fire.

I like the way this reads and the justification, except for Dany's reaction.

Vic is going to steal at least 1 dragon for himself, maybe a second for Tyrion. I don't see that going well.

Vic challenges for rule. I like the idea of him and Barristan fighting and think you did an excellent job, but what about then Dany gets back? I don't see her caring it was legal. He is a trusted advisor to her.

Vic takes out Jorah seems too easy. Creepy lustful challenger put down. I like the idea of them both being heavily wounded, as I see that being a realistic fight given their characters.

Vic kills her husband Hizdahr, yawn, knew that had to happen by someone.

Vic kills Daario seems like the speed vs strength fight that pops up a few times. Never seems to end well for either.

Vic kills Grey Worm too for fun. Ok he wasn't there, but if he is going through everyone else I see him stepping up. And in Strong Belwas... sorry forgot about him like HBO.

I don't think Vic will kill them all, but maybe just one. The boring husband we all know has to die. Each of the others is a good fighter with plenty of experience and anyone could end Vic or wound him to the point he wouldn't be able to beat the next. Now that Dany is married her husband is essentially in control with her gone. Vic only need challenge him for rule. The others may be advisors/lovers/guards/etc but they are not the control. Hizdahr is the control. They were married solely for peace if i remember correctly. If anyone else is killed i am guessing poor old Barristan would be it, but I can't see Vic fighting through all of Dany's people while she is gone and her coming back and not having him cooked by Dragon Fire.

[The Reckoner]

Vic kills Essos

[Blind Beth the Cat Lady]

I'm pretty sure the Tattered Prince will survive the Battle of Meereen, and that Pentos is in for a lot more excitement than it might care for.

There's been a lot of emphasis on the fact that servants in Pentos are slaves in all but name. When Dany eventually gets her hoards and dragons organized and starts for Westeros, I doubt any slave-based societies will remain in her wake. Pentos might be the final and least egregious slave city to fall, but I'm pretty sure it will fall. Probably as a gift to the Tattered Prince, who will also do away with the temporary-prince-murdering. Or try anyway.

(Also, as a related side-point, I think Dany's next Queening stage will involve a lot more delegation of actual rule; I think Hizdar may well survive and be left to rule Meereen in Dany's name; Volantis will be given to the freedwoman who helped Tyrion and Jorah; Pentos to the Tattered Prince, etc. Though all will owe allegiance to Dany.)

Dany might be miffed that Barristan went against her, but when she realizes Illyrio was never really her friend I think she'll get over it pretty quickly.

And I think it is certainly very heavily foreshadowed that Barristan will die at some point, hopefully in battle, but we have a lot of story left in this series. I don't have any specific evidence, but Barristan dying in DoD 2.0 feels more appropriate than him dying in Meereen.

[Sword of the Morgan]

There is an interesting theory that the Tattered Prince was actually the guy killed by the dragons and not Quentin. It's pretty interesting, though unlikely.

[Bironic]

There is an interesting theory that the Tattered Prince was actually the guy killed by the dragons and not Quentin. It's pretty interesting, though unlikely.

I hope this is a joke.

I'm pretty sure the Tattered Prince will survive the Battle of Meereen, and that Pentos is in for a lot more excitement than it might care for.

There's been a lot of emphasis on the fact that servants in Pentos are slaves in all but name. When Dany eventually gets her hoards and dragons organized and starts for Westeros, I doubt any slave-based societies will remain in her wake. Pentos might be the final and least egregious slave city to fall, but I'm pretty sure it will fall. Probably as a gift to the Tattered Prince, who will also do away with the temporary-prince-murdering. Or try anyway.

(Also, as a related side-point, I think Dany's next Queening stage will involve a lot more delegation of actual rule; I think Hizdar may well survive and be left to rule Meereen in Dany's name; Volantis will be given to the freedwoman who helped Tyrion and Jorah; Pentos to the Tattered Prince, etc. Though all will owe allegiance to Dany.)

Dany might be miffed that Barristan went against her, but when she realizes Illyrio was never really her friend I think she'll get over it pretty quickly.

And I think it is certainly very heavily foreshadowed that Barristan will die at some point, hopefully in battle, but we have a lot of story left in this series. I don't have any specific evidence, but Barristan dying in DoD 2.0 feels more appropriate than him dying in Meereen.

I like that. I hope that he will see his old KG buddies, especially Jaime Lannister, before he dies. That would be an interesting conversation:

They meet ahorse on the banks of the Trident:

Barristan Selmy: Seems you have lost your hand as well as your honor, Ser Jaime.

Jaime Lannister: Well can't argue with the first one, but concerning the honor, I'm actually sitting on it.

Barristan Selmy: In that case your horse has more honor than you ser.

Jaime Lannister: And more limbs as well, Lord Commander.

Barristan Selmy: You have the nerve to call me Lord Commander, after all these vows you have broken, all these things you have done?

Jaime Lannister: ....

[George W. Lannister]

I'm sure Tatters has some nice things to reveal about Illyrio. After all, Illyrio appears to be the most powerful magister. The nobility, to which Tatters belonged, hate the magisters with a passion. I'm sure Tatters, through his sources might have interesting info about Illyrio's heritage and the magisters involvement in other schemes.

This is the most underdiscussed plot line of the upcoming book on this site, IMO. I have a feeling that Illyrio's plans / family legacy (Blackfyre or otherwise) are about to be donkey punched. Hard.

[Steelborn]

Vic kills Essos

This is the most likely thing to be honest.

[Tannim]

I'm pretty sure the Tattered Prince will survive the Battle of Meereen, and that Pentos is in for a lot more excitement than it might care for.

Fair bet, and not one I'll take. :laugh:

One point, well, several. I have doubts Vicy or anyone else will have the requisite number of ships to transport Dany's growing army, plau any freedmen followers, if she should chose to take them. A substantial host will be left behind, where is a mater of debate and, truthfully, only Martin knows Dany's launching point. I favor Volantis. Regardless, of the forces left behind, a significant portion can/likely be given to Tatters in his quests to reclaim his realm. A theme Dany would have sympathy for, as it mirror's her own. Depending on terms, alliance probable, vassel state to Dany possible. Tatters marches half the length of Essos and clears out Pentos of Magisters, which we, the readers, find out after the BotD 2.0.

<sighs> We, the reader, will find out in, oh, a decade or so, when Dream is published. :crying:

[SevasTra82]

Everyone is just assuming that the horn Euron gave Victarion is real, and that he found it in Valyeria. People seem to be taking this at face value.

I believe the Horn will end up being a fake, and that Euron sent Victarion on this "mission" to be rid of him (there is a lot of proof that the two don't get along).

I really don't believe Victarion is going to bind a dragon, or take control of one in any way, shape, or form.

[Watermelon Knight]

The Tattered Prince will push Daenerys too far and end up being devoured by Drogon.

[Brother Seamus]

"Barristan the Boss isn't leaving us before returning to KL." That has a lot of appeal. One would like to see the effect on the former crew who dismissed him when he shows up. The problem is, Joffrey's dead, Varys is gone, Slynt is dead, Pycelle is dead, and so on. I guess just Cersei seeing him will be good enough.