Equilibrium Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Tyrells didn't mind Lannisters staying in power. Dorne had personal vendetta against them which is not good reason to decide who gets to stay in power. Grayjoys are rebellious pirates. Arryns are represented by a clearly crazy woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 If the girls weren't hostages, why didn't they return them? They were too busy throwing tea parties and playing with kittens, unicorns, rainbows and shizzles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Equilibrium Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Would you have returned them? Aside from Joffrey being psycho girls had nothing to lose by remaining in KL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Tyrells didn't mind Lannisters staying in power. Dorne had personal vendetta against them which is not good reason to decide who gets to stay in power. Grayjoys are rebellious pirates. Arryns are represented by a clearly crazy woman. I I didn't notice any smallfolk revolts against Lannister rule either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor's Dragon Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 It's the Michael Jordan/Tiger Woods principle.Nobody has ever played basketball better than Michael Jordan.No basketball player has ever been more overrated than Michael Jordan.Nobody as ever played golf better than Tiger Woods.No golfer has ever been more overrated than Tiger Woods.All four of those sentences are true. I'm not sure whether it's just a human thing or part of the mass-media culture, but whenever somebody is demonstrably on top of the game, the hyperbole just gushes. Michael Jordan was a great basketball player and Tiger Woods was (is?/will be?) a great golfer. Neither is or was miles and miles ahead of all his peers, but both were consistently treated that way. Neither are the Starks as pure, blameless and overpowering as they're made out to be by many of their fans, even though they're probably the "best" of the major houses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Cersei had to be removed, but Tywin's rule wasn't that bad.Oh you mean the same man who years earlier had his men sack the city who had raped children, women and had babies murdered and unleashed monsters such as Gregor, Amory, etc......Tywin also uses sexual violence and humiliation to punish women and girls. This same man when he feels his evil house is in jeopardy he let's loose soldiers to terrorize the innocent smallfolk. Than he disregards one of the oldest institutes(The Wall)pleas for help because he wants the Wildings to come over to cause Robb more trouble. Tell me again why a evil monster such as Tywin should be anywhere near any power? Or why Westeros should suffer under his rule or anyone's by the name of Lannister? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernXY Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I didn't say all the hate he gets was unjustified, but sometimes people seem to make up even more reasons to hate him out of thin air. Not only because of Stark bias, but because he was built up as an antagonist of many fan favorites. Tywin treats Tyrion like crap and has wanted him dead since he was born. Ned gives Hodor, a simpleton who isn't of his blood a job and treat him with dignity. Tywin wouldn't even contemplate putting up with Hodor. Eventually after doing bad things, you become a bad person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I didn't notice any smallfolk revolts against Lannister rule either. Except, you know, where the King's Landing mob attacked the Royal Family in the streets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willofDorne Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Because the PoV chapters structure incites readers to not identify entirely with one character, and to think about the characters' own biases when telling their account of the story?Also because a lot of readers are not idiots and know you can root for a hero while not trying to make him into Jesus, in ASOIAF (cf: PoV structure, and characterisation a bit more complex than a disney fairytale)Maybe it came to Fantasy with Martin, maybe not, but a lot of modern Fantasy is like that now: you can take Bakker, Erikson, Abercrombie, Abraham, whatever, you look at their world saviours, they can be assholes you want to die slow painful deaths, and you look at their antagonists, they sometimes are not any more evil than the hero.You've got it wrong. People trying to whitewash these evil characters isn't making the character more human, but just making everyone doubt your personal sanity. Rhaegar captured Lyanna Stark and there were dire, disgusting consequences. People try to whitewash the whole thing and make it grey, or more interesting, because they think that's modern. It's not, it's just as close minded as never reading the books in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Would you have returned them? Aside from Joffrey being psycho girls had nothing to lose by remaining in KL At least the Lannisters didn't kill their hostages. Two of Robb's hostages were killed by his own bannermen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Except, you know, where the King's Landing mob attacked the Royal Family in the streets Because they were starving (because the Tyrells were blocking the King's Road), not because Lannisters were in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Equilibrium Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 If Lyanna loved Rhaegar it was two love birds eloping then... We can't take Robert's judgement for granted he was a lover scorned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor's Dragon Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 You've got it wrong. People trying to whitewash these evil characters isn't making the character more human, but just making everyone doubt your personal sanity. Rhaegar captured Lyanna Stark and there were dire, disgusting consequences. People try to whitewash the whole thing and make it grey, or more interesting, because they think that's modern. It's not, it's just as close minded as never reading the books in the first place. Except nobody knows whether Lyanna went willingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7th-key Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 They are presented that way: they don't actively seek power and are all about puppies and children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Because they were starving (because the Tyrells were blocking the King's Road), not because Lannisters were in charge. They shouted very nasty things at the Lannisters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Oh you mean the same man who years earlier had his men sack the city who had raped children, women and had babies murdered and unleashed monsters such as Gregor, Amory, etc...... Tywin also uses sexual violence and humiliation to punish women and girls. This same man when he feels his evil house is in jeopardy he let's loose soldiers to terrorize the innocent smallfolk. Than he disregards one of the oldest institutes(The Wall)pleas for help because he wants the Wildings to come over to cause Robb more trouble. Tell me again why a evil monster such as Tywin should be anywhere near any power? Or why Westeros should suffer under his rule or anyone's by the name of Lannister? Because he is one of the best leaders we have seen in the series. Regardless how you feel about the man he knows how to handle power. He isn't by any stretch a good person but even most Stark fans will admit he is a great leader. He is vicious and brutal to his enemies and their subjects, but once he has beaten them to his satisfaction he is willing to forgive them. The Reynes and Tarbecks were a unique situation and a statement, one that only needed to be made once. Also I think it is greatly exaggerated how hard he was on them, he seems to have spared the Tarbeck woman and he only wiped out all of the Reynes because there was no other timely way to do so aside from flooding the castle, it isn't like they surrendered and then he had them all killed, and since he wasn't Lord of CR at the time he couldn't sit there and siege them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Yea, Comic Sans is used around to indicate sarcasm (because otherwise it might get lost). * ninjaed by Helena Well, a few days ago someone argued that Tywin was using the fact that Tyrion was arrested as an excuse to go to war, so I wanted to do the same thing with a fan favorite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 They shouted very nasty things at the Lannisters. Yeah, they were pissed because they had not enough food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Equilibrium Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 The common people pray for rain, healthy children, and a summer that never ends. It is no matter to them if the high lords play their game of thrones, so long as they are left in peace. They never are. Jorah Mormont Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Because they were starving (because the Tyrells were blocking the King's Road), not because Lannisters were in charge. Yes, they clearly loved the Lannisters. Lets take a look hm? “We have become swollen, bloated, foul. Brother couples with sister in the bed of kings, and the fruit of their incest capers in his palace to the piping of a twisted little monkey demon...." “Leave her, Your Grace,” Cersei called out to the king, “she’s beyond our help, poor thing.”The mother heard her. Somehow the queen’s voice cut through the woman’s ravaged wits. Her slack face twisted in loathing. “Whore!” she shrieked. “Kingslayer’s whore! Brotherfucker!” Her dead child dropped from her arms like a sack of flour as she pointed at Cersei. “Brotherfucker brotherfucker brotherfucker. A tumult of sound drowned his last words, a rolling thunder of rage and fear and hatred that engulfed them from all sides. “Bastard!” someone screamed at Joffrey. “Bastard monster.” Other voices flung calls of “Whore” and “Brotherfucker” at the queen, while Tyrion was pelted with shouts of “Freak” and “Halfman.” to name just a few Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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