Female Hand of the king : prohibited by law?

[Batbob45]

Asha can handle any dirty joke that lord might make

[Ser Arthur Hightower]

Cersei certainly couldn't name a female hand, primarily because she needs a hands that is at least somewhat of a warrior to lead Tommen's armies, a task neither she nor Tommen are suited for.

Other than that I see no reason why a woman shouldn't be hand, usually a king will lead his own soldiers, and have brothers, uncles, nephews and sons to assist them in war time.

It's not as if women have never sat on the small council, Rhaenyra attended many, Cersei led small council meetings, and there may well have been other female regents, the only controversy over Nymeria's appointment to the council was that the Tyrells didn't like dorne having a seat.

I doubt it has or will happen, but I could certainly see other seats on the council being occupied by women: masters of whisperers and coin could literally be anyone, especially since they don't really command people.

[Pod The Impaler]

Nothing officially prevents it.

Yes, there will always be the sexism providing either doubt in the Hand's strength or doubt in the King's, but that is the nature of politics - the ambitious or resentful will undermine one's authority any way they can.

On the other hand (pardon the pun), the King's word is law and if the king chooses a woman to be his hand, then the monarch must be obeyed.

The right sort of female hand could compliment a certain sort of king.

[Jaak]

The right sort of female hand could compliment a certain sort of king.

Complimenting kings is well nigh universal activity.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

The right sort of female's hand could compliment a certain sort of king.

Fixed. Oh, I couldn't resist.

Anyway, I think that in any case, if a King sees a woman that it's worthy enough to be considered his Hand, the best "course of action" would be marry her. That of course, if such King is single.

[Jaak]

Anyway, I think that in any case, if a King sees a woman that it's worthy enough to be considered his Hand, the best "course of action" would be marry her. That of course, if such King is single.

And that the woman is single. And in childbearing age (or due to reach it).

How is the practice about a Queen Consort sitting and attending Small Council with her husband the King? When the husband is away?

Aegon made the Iron Throne. It is a seat for one. When he was away on a royal progress, as we hear he was wont to do, but both Queens were back at Red Keep, which of them sat the Iron Throne?

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Aegon made the Iron Throne. It is a seat for one. When he was away on a royal progress, as we hear he was wont to do, but both Queens were back at Red Keep, which of them sat the Iron Throne?

Well, for once, Aegon's relationship with his wives was very dysfunctional, even more than the mere fact he married BOTH of his sisters. None of them was into Aegon in the same way he was into Rhaenys, just for a start. We know Rhaenys was Aegon's favourite, though. If she had asked him something like "I want US to rule TOGETHER as equals", maybe he could have complied and make two thrones (or three, so Visenya wouldn't complain). But I kinda have the feeling that while he wanted to conquer and being King, they didn't, so, he was the one doing all of the "Kinging" and Orys was his Hand.

[Wmarshal]

Viserys considered Rhaenyra for Hand very seriously. The objection that deterred him (and doomed Targaryens) was that this would require her to live in King´s Landing and provoke quarrels with Alicent´s children. Not that there was any legal rule against female Hand.

And the fact that stopped him only highlighted is idiotic beliefs, Rhaenyra with serious power and close would have routed Aegon's dream of power.

[Wmarshal]

Well, for once, Aegon's relationship with his wives was very dysfunctional, even more than the mere fact he married BOTH of his sisters. None of them was into Aegon in the same way he was into Rhaenys, just for a start. We know Rhaenys was Aegon's favourite, though. If she had asked him something like "I want US to rule TOGETHER as equals", maybe he could have complied and make two thrones (or three, so Visenya wouldn't complain). But I kinda have the feeling that while he wanted to conquer and being King, they didn't, so, he was the one doing all of the "Kinging" and Orys was his Hand.

Seriously? Rhaenys and Visenya wasn't into him? Damn Martin! just give us FAB already!

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Seriously? Rhaenys and Visenya wasn't into him? Damn Martin! just give us FAB already!

Yeah... he was handsome, strong, masculine, smart, capable and also seemed a very good father and husband (he didn't have other women). But his wives didn't really like him that much. Rhaenys had other men and Visenya was only obligation. I dunno what was wrong with him: maybe he snored so loud that he actually breathed fire or he didn't take baths, who knows.

[Lord Varys]

Rhaenys and Visenya both sat on the Iron Throne in Aegon's absence (i.e. when he was on a progress, on Dragonstone, or incapacitated). They also issues laws and decrees, hear supplicants, conducted trials, etc.

They ruled in the place of the king, just as the Hands of later generation. I'd assume that Alysanne did something similar, perhaps even Alyssa - as queen, or as Queen Regent (if she held that office).

Aegon and Visenya eventually lived apart from 35 AC onwards. There is no special reason given for this, so the best explanation would be that they simply grew apart while with the years. They were never deeply in love with each other to begin with, and people tend to get inflexible in old age, so this would have to be expected.

As to Rhaenys' ways:

If Aenys was fathered by one of her favorites, then most likely with his knowledge and/or on his orders. Aegon needed an heir, and if he was sterile, taking another queen would not help all that much. Monarchs do this kind of stuff, when they are incapable of fathering any children. Considering that Aenys has the Targaryen looks, it would be very likely that Rhaenys chose a Valyrian or fair-haired man to conceive the child with her.

Visenya would later have used magic to conceive a child with Aegon, if this theory is correct. But it is just as likely that Rhaenys and Aegon had just the usual Targaryen issues with children - monstrosities, stillbirths -, and that Aegon did not want Visenya to continue his line - which is why he only conceived Maegor with her when it looked like Aenys would die.

[Ibbison from Ibben]

With Cersei, Margaery, Olenna, and Dany holding powerful positions or wielding influence, women seem to be enjoying unusually prominent spots in the power structure. This could lead to future acceptance or backlash.

I remember reading about John Knox, the Scottish cleric, complaining about the unusual prominence of women in positions of power in his time. (This would be from Barbara Tuchman's A Distant Mirror.) The four were Elizabeth Tudor, Mary Stuart, Queen of Scots, Catherine de Medici (Queen Mother in France) and someone else I can't remember and don't care to look up. Something similar might be happening in Westeros. The European situation did not lead to acceptance in the following years.

[Lord Varys]

Only Cersei is truly powerful, and she only by office. Dany is not yet in Westeros, but if she wins and takes the Iron Throne, women could rise to power.

Olenna and Margaery have only influence behind the scenes, they don't wield direct power.

[John Doe]

but if she wins and takes the Iron Throne, women could rise to power.

I doubt that.

[kimim]

Asha, Margaery, Olenna. I would have included Catelyn, but she respects the status quo too much. If I had to choose one, it'd be Asha.

[SerCas]

Cersei thinks to herself that it is a pity she couldn't name Taene a Hand because she is a woman (and also from Myr). I'd say we're not going to find a female Hand anytime soon (unless it is Daenerys, whom I think is a strong possibility).

[Jaak]

Cersei thinks to herself that it is a pity she couldn't name Taene a Hand because she is a woman (and also from Myr). I'd say we're not going to find a female Hand anytime soon (unless it is Daenerys, whom I think is a strong possibility).

Um, whose Hand? Aegon´s?

Aegon wants her as Queen. Would the deal involve her sitting the Iron Throne on his behalf? Probably.

When Jaehaerys was away and both Alysanne and Barth were present in throne room, which of them sat the Iron Throne?

[voltron]

I think it depend on the influence of the King and the political stability of the kingdom. A weak king and a weak female hand would be very difficult, but a strong king and a strong female hand wouldn't be challenged. Viserys I for example was loved by the lords and his reign was peaceful and prosperous, i think naming Rhaenyra would have not caused disagreements among the lords. I think many female could have done a better job than the male one, for example Lysa Arryn !

Spoiler

No i'm joking ! :bowdown:

[Mal Malenkirk]

Westeros doesn't have some unified body of law that is written down and kept somewhere. Westeros 'Laws' AFAIK is a term that seems interchangeable with traditions, customs, some regulations (unified currency and seemingly standardized units of measures, for example) and lots of ad hoc decrees by various lords and the king. So I doubt there is a text of law somewhere that prohibits a woman from being Hand of the king. There are traditions and a certainty that it would cause trouble if a king named one, so that's probably all that stands in the way of a female hand being appointed.

[Knight of the Teabags]

One thing to consider with the regard to this question is a socially acceptable adult noblewoman in Westeros is a married noblewoman. Realistically an unmarried noble lady above a certain age suffers the stigma from being seen as best as an 'old maid' if not worse. So the vast majority of noblewomen of significant status to be considered as a potential King's/Queen's Hand are like their male counterparts going to be married. So give a moment's thought for our Lady Hand's Lord Husband.

If there is going to be only one man in the Seven Kingdoms who gets jokes made about him being unable to rule in his own house it is the man who is married to the woman who speaks with the King's voice! Given the patriarchal nature of Westerosi society promoting a noblewoman to an ability-based position like Hand is also somewhat snubbing her male relatives by saying she is better than them. Imagine for example if you were to make Olenna Tyrell (I think a woman most would consider a capable choice for Hand) the Hand what her son Mace Tyrell would think? Or the reaction of the male Greyjoys to Asha being named Hand? Raising a woman in Westeros to a position where she is directly competing with men for the role is always going to make some man feel his manhood is threatened by it, remember those knights who were beaten by Brienne at Renly's tourney?

As a related aside I remember seeing a documentary called 'She-Wolves' which was about the women in English History who were early ruling Queens or attempted to become ruling Queens (such as Matilda, Isabella of France and Margaret of Anjou) and a running theme in it was the struggle that society had in defining the exact status of the male spouses of these Queens. The story of Queen Mary (that's 'Bloody' Mary, Queen Elizabeth's half sister not their mutual cousin Mary, Queen of Scots) who was the first woman to successfully reign as a ruling Queen and married Phillip II of Spain was particularly interesting in this regard as they showed rejected coronation jewelry ideas which arguably depicted Phillip in a manner too much like a ruling King of England rather than the Queen's consort, Queen Elizabeth I avoided the issue altogether by remaining single.

This concern is also hinted at by GRRM in the Princess and the Queen when one of the objections to Rhaenyra's rule that is raised is that if she were to become Queen her husband and uncle Daemon 'Rogue Prince' Targaryen would be the real ruler.