Dagger and Coin II: Spoilers through The Spider's War

[Jaxom 1974]

Ultimately, I was left satisfied. 

If things weren't all wrapped up neatly and with a bow at the end, I was just fine with that.  I don't know that I like things too neat. 

I liked that Marcus was there to point out the specific flaws in Cithrin's plan at the end BEFORE the actual ending at the Kingspire.  Others would have had the action begin and then have the flaws become self evident and the heroes rushing to make a correction.  But there's Marcus pointing it out as soon as he hears what's going on, but then things go belly up anyway.  I liked that.

 

[Rhom]

16 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

Ultimately, I was left satisfied. 

If things weren't all wrapped up neatly and with a bow at the end, I was just fine with that.  I don't know that I like things too neat. 

I liked that Marcus was there to point out the specific flaws in Cithrin's plan at the end BEFORE the actual ending at the Kingspire.  Others would have had the action begin and then have the flaws become self evident and the heroes rushing to make a correction.  But there's Marcus pointing it out as soon as he hears what's going on, but then things go belly up anyway.  I liked that.

 

I agree.  I also thought the timeframe of the Cithrin/Clara POV's near the end worked in favor of dramatic storytelling.  You had Aster run in there and yell "Basrahip knows!"  Then you cut to Clara with the "thing that used to be Vicarian" and he says "Did you really think no one would find out?"  At first you are with her thinking that he means the plot since Aster had already run in.  It was actually a bit disappointing the way that it all fell apart with him just happening to walk into the stables.

[LongRider]

The 'overhear it in the stables' was a weak point I thought.  I did like Vic's talk with his mother, he was pretty mean tho!  LOL, she got the last laff and Vincen too.   Good for her.  

[Hereward]

I found the conclusion enjoyable, but not world changing. As others have said, it was all a little too neat. I saw Marcus' rejection of Basrahip's influence coming. It was, after all, more or less how Thomas Covenant triumphed over Lord Foul. I think my favourite character was dawson, despite hating the name. For reasons I can't begin to fathom, I've always liked "good conservative" characters overtaken by change, see Denethor and Celadeyr from Saga of the Exiles.

[sologdin]

On 3/25/2016 at 11:56 AM, Triskan said:

LotR is arguably one book, but I have at least read that one.  Never read WoT or Potter.  Long Price I'm just sort of questioning the genre it belongs to.

fantasy of demographics, probably, like the RSB.

[LongRider]

Re-reading The Spider's War I kept an eye out for mentions of the dragon's workshop.  First one I believe is when Marcus and Yardem travel to the isolated meadow to talk to Inys about the plan for killing the priests.  After the conversation he says

Quote

"And once we have finished, then the work will begin.  I have smelled remnants of a workroom far in the south.  Little more than a hint of old herb and vivarium, but it will be a start.  Yes." 

Then he flew away.

Another strand of the thread is found in a late Clara chapter, the one where she meets with Vicarian when he has just come back to Camnipol, he tells her:

Quote

He'd had a report of Korl Essian, off on a treasure hunt for Gerder Palliako and the throne, that made some fairly outlandish claims about tunnels passing under the depths of Lyonea and a buried machinery deep underground that connected in some obscure fashion into dreams."

After Inys escapes the attack on him at the tower, in the Entr'ace: The Dragon chapter he lands, somewhere, and catches a bit of scent:

Quote

"It opened a vault of memories.  His mother's workshop in the South Tower, the air hot and rich with the smell of blood and iron, salt and sand.  He remembered being so young he could do little more than perch and watch as she took her turn fashioning wonders for the court."

A few interesting comments.  I kinda remember something about Gerder sending someone off to look at the tunnels in Lyonea, which the map shows is south and across the Inner Sea.  Was wondering if anyone else might have comments on this.  I only have the last book at hand as I don't do digital, so cant' look it up. 

[MisterOJ]

I was saving TSW for vacation, and I'm glad I did. I like to make sure I have good, memorable books to read while I'm on vacation. This one really fit the bill.

I think Joe did the best job with Geder. I loved how there were times when he seemed to go right up and toe the line of "Geder isn't really evil, just manipulated..." and then he'd come back shortly after and remind the readers in no uncertain terms that Geder actually was that bad of a person. And although he was (for the most part) bad, Joe did a good job of making him feel like a real human. I liked that.

At first, I was disappointed that all the other major players survived. I really thought the whole series was leading up to the death of Marcus. And then there was Kit's deceptive "death" too. Neither sat that well with me at first, but the more I thought about it - I liked both. Kit's survival especially made sense after some consideration.

Overall, it was a really good series. I don't know that the final book was the best of the five - but that's okay. It was still a really good book and I enjoyed it.

[Darth Richard II]

Um, I think you mean Daniel, unless I missed something.

[Xray the Enforcer]

ha. Reminds me of the time back in 2007 that Yagathai brought a book to a convention for Scott Lynch to sign...except he brought The Blade Itself instead of The Lies of Locke Lamora. 

I am pretty sure Scott signed that book "I am not Joe Abercrombie."

[MisterOJ]

Whoops. My bad.

That's what I get for posting here right after reading through the Joe Abercrombie thread. Mea culpa, mea culpa. 

[Tears of Lys]

After trying to ignore the whole idea of Dagger & Coin, putting it and the final book out of my mind, I see this thread pop up.  Behold!  The final book in the series is out! 

Ordered last night.  The only expectation I have is enjoyment, which I'm sure will be fulfilled.

[End of Disc One]

On 4/12/2016 at 8:30 AM, MisterOJ said:

I think Joe did the best job with Geder.

Wait a minute have I been reading all of these books in the wrong order?

[Maithanet]

5 minutes ago, End of Disc One said:

Wait a minute have I been reading all of these books in the wrong order?

Everyone knows it is Best Served Cold, then Tyrant's Law, then The Forever War. 

[Jerol]

Just finished Spider's War. I am so fricking happy at the way he stuck the landing I'm just beside myself. Now I'll read through this thread and find out that half of you hated it but damn, this was just sweet for me. 

I have two creative outlets. I am teaching myself how to play guitar, which at my age is a real bitch. And I write (finished book one on my fantasy series and now 25K into book two). Daniel Abraham has become like listening to Richard Thompson or Johnny Winter or David Gilmour. You just want to fucking give up because there's no way to get to this level. 

[brunhilda]

Not only did he stick the landing but he left the door open for future stories set in the same world. 

I loved how he handled Geder, with his unredeemable nature and necessary act of non-redemptive redemption. One of the best villains in a long time.

[Darth Richard II]

Ugh, there will be no more D&C stories, per the author, for the 1000th time,

[MisterOJ]

20 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

Ugh, there will be no more D&C stories, per the author, for the 1000th time,

I know he's said that he doesn't intend to write any more stories in that world, but Daniel is still fairly young. He may change his mind in 10-15 years and decide to go back and revisit.

Probably not, it wouldn't be the craziest thing that's happened. I mean, at one time we weren't supposed to get any more Star Wars movies ever, and look where we are now.

[Darth Richard II]

1 hour ago, MisterOJ said:

I know he's said that he doesn't intend to write any more stories in that world, but Daniel is still fairly young. He may change his mind in 10-15 years and decide to go back and revisit.

Probably not, it wouldn't be the craziest thing that's happened. I mean, at one time we weren't supposed to get any more Star Wars movies ever, and look where we are now.

Yeah I can get on board with that, I've just ran into a few people who are convinced more books in that setting are 100% a sure thing and refuse to believe me when I tell them what Daniel himself has said on the subject.

[Rhom]

I'm eager to see what @DanielAbraham has up next for us.  With The Expanse really kicking into high gear, I'm sure he will be focused on that for a bit; but I will be excited to find out what his next solo project may entail.