"Osuna's bullring: Why Game of Thrones shouldn't film there"

[Ingelheim]

Well, I imagine you don't leave your house often, since you're inevitably going to be spending money that is either directly or indirectly going to end up - sooner or later - supporting something you don't agree with.

As you say - everyone is free to do as they want, and if that means staying home and doing nothing, then that's okay too.

One thing is giving money that will end up supporting something I don't agree with without my direct knowledge. I actually hate that happens, but it's part of life.

Another is giving money that I DO KNOW will end up supporting something I hate. And yes, that's something I don't do.

If you ask me...would you visit the Coliseum? Yes, I already have. Would you visit the Coliseum if animals were still tortured there? No, I wouldn't.

[Ser Pounce FTW]

Ser Pounce,

Also, FWIW, PETA has a branch in Spain, and has carried out various lobbying and protest activities in Spain.

I still don't see how where an organization's offices are should mean much when it comes to what they are trying to do.

[Valdred Dethstorm]

Not a single person here has said they should do that. What everyone opposed to filming there has suggested is that they find some alternative. This is a show able to create the illusion of hallways, courtyards, castles, and entire cities with its sets, digital composites, and CGI. There's nothing that prevents the show from creating a set and enhancing it digitally. And perhaps nothing to prevent it from finding some alternative venue such as finding a bullring no longer actually used for bullfighting.

Spartacus, with a third of the show's budget, managed to make several very impressive set-and-digital-composite arenas. It is entirely possible. Will it look as "authentic" as the real thing? Maybe not. But no bulls would be tortured for public entertainment on the grounds where filming took place, no tourist dollars would be be shoveled into promotion of the bullfights, and Benioff, Weiss, and those concerned at HBO could have a clear conscience, while their fans would appreciate their sensitivity to one of the blatant examples of deliberate, institutionalized animal cruelty in the Western hemisphere.

Of course Ran, there's nothing that prevents it except for, you know, money.

Are you seriously using Spartacus as an example? It looked even more fake than 300.

It's not like they're going to butcher 100 bulls and film it. It's stupid to be pissed at something like this.

Let's not film in the sea because people kill whales. Let's not film in Africa because there are poachers and people who hunt for sport. Let's not film in Canada because people kill baby seals! The show may inspire the tourists to go to Canada to club some poor seals.

Filming in bullring =/= celebrating or endorsing bullfighting.

[Ran]

Agreed, but for those who care, now they know.

[WalkerOfWhite]

All I can say is that you people are more entertaining than a bullfight ever dreamed of being.

keep at it - I don't think I've had this good a laugh in oh -

well, minutes, actually. since I read the last thread with a lot of preaching in it...

Thank you all - truly... you are gems to be treasured...

[Ingelheim]

All I can say is that you people are more entertaining than a bullfight ever dreamed of being.

keep at it - I don't think I've had this good a laugh in oh -

well, minutes, actually. since I read the last thread with a lot of preaching in it...

Thank you all - truly... you are gems to be treasured...

Yep, not answering my reply because reasons. That's funny as well.

[Ran]

Of course Ran, there's nothing that prevents it except for, you know, money.

Are you seriously using Spartacus as an example? It looked even more fake than 300.

Budget. HBO has already done remarkable CG set extensions, so really, there is no question it could do so with the arena if it was willing to spend the funds for it.

But I'd rather a mediocre set than a real bullring, if that bullring is actively used for the blood sport. Authenticity can take a back seat to ethics.

It perpetuates it. Not stupid at all. Again, Osuna lobbied hard because they want the tourism boom the production entails.

Terrible attempts at analogies, I hope you're aware. I haven't spoken of not filming in Spain, which should give you a clue as to why those analogies are bad.

Filming a documentary depicting it as it is in reality, no, that is reportage.

Filming scenes for a massively popular show at a location that will become a tourist attraction because of that connection is an endorsement.

[Ingelheim]

Filming a documentary depicting it as it is in reality, no, that is reportage.

Filming scenes for a massively popular show at a location that will become a tourist attraction because of that connection is an endorsement.

Ran, one question.

Have you ever visited places where GOT was filmed? If the anwer is yes...would you visit the bullring of Osuna?

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I wouldn't take Peta as a reference of anything because they also were the ones saying that Farmville and Pokemon were about animal cruelty because the virtual animals were all cramped there... and it was cruel. To them. :/

[Ran]

I have. I personally would never go to the bullring. There are people here who would. Who might do so in May because that's when Osuna has it's fair, and so would be the most interesting time for a tourist... oh, and it's when the bullfights happen, so hey, might as well...

No one can force anyone to go there. But it's in the production's power to not give reasons for people to go there.

[Ingelheim]

I have. I personally would never go to the bullring. There are people here who would. Who might do so in May because that's when Osuna has it's fair, and so would be the most interesting time for a tourist... oh, and it's when the bullfights happen, so hey, might as well...

No one can force anyone to go there. But it's in the production's power to not give reasons for people to go there.

Exactly. Now, people willing to spend thousands of euros to visit those places must know where they are going.

There are people against bullfighting that is willing to spend money for visiting the bullring. If you ask me, that people isn't really against bullfighting. But the people who are against, they most likely won't spend a single coin in that bullring.

Of course it'll make more tourists to go there. But not just the bullring. The beautiful town of Osuna as well. The places, restaurants, etc.

[WalkerOfWhite]

Yep, not answering my reply because reasons. That's funny as well.

errrr...

actually - there wasn't anything left to say - you ended it with "I won't do that". I ended it with "good luck with that".

what more is there to say?

or did you feel the need for me to answer a non-statement? I can do that if you wish, but it'll be a non-statement in and of itself, thus adding nothing to the conversation at hand.

[Ran]

Doesn't that argument basically mean you accept the argument that the production is in fact endorsing bullfighting? If people who claim to be against bullfighting but give the bullring direct support are actually supporting it, then a production that provides direct support is also supporting it.

My understanding is that other locations in and around Osuna would be used. I don't begrudge the town becoming a tourist attraction in general. I begrudge it's arena, specifically, becoming an attraction because the production is using it in a prominent scene.

[PatrickStormborn]

I just feel like I should once again point out the irony that the scene they're filming there is Daenerys Targaryen REJECTING Meereen because of their lust for blood, and then jumping into the pit to rescue Drogon from his attackers.

She would be absolutely disgusted by an active bullring.

There has to be a reason that a work of art is being made. In the books, Daznak's Pit is thematically relevant to Dany's rejection of bloodshed (and later acceptance of the price of war); the same cannot be said of the show, where the showrunners are choosing to film in an active bullring because of money - contradicting both the themes of the book and the show's own characterisation of one of its main characters.

[WalkerOfWhite]

Good God - please keep this going - I'm about to split I'm laughing so hard -

so holier-than-thou and ready to pass blanket judgements...

Well, I'll see your "they wouldn't go to the ring" and raise you "they shouldn't go to the country".

your bet...

[Ingelheim]

Doesn't that argument basically mean you accept the argument that the production is in fact endorsing bullfighting? If people who claim to be against bullfighting but give the bullring direct support are actually supporting it, then a production that provides direct support is also supporting it.

My understanding is that other locations in and around Osuna would be used. I don't begrudge the town becoming a tourist attraction in general. I begrudge it's arena, specifically, becoming an attraction because the production is using it in a prominent scene.

Yes, my argument is saying that. Only that those who would pay for visiting the arena are actually in favor of bullfighting, directly or indirectly. But also remarking that people will be surprised how many money the bullring is gonna get. Extremly less than you think.

I just feel like I should once again point out the irony that the scene they're filming there is Daenerys Targaryen REJECTING Meereen because of their lust for blood, and then jumping into the pit to rescue Drogon from his attackers.

She would be absolutely disgusted by an active bullring.

There has to be a reason that a work of art is being made. In the books, Daznak's Pit is thematically relevant to Dany's rejection of bloodshed (and later acceptance of the price of war); the same cannot be said of the show, where the showrunners are choosing to film in an active bullring because of money - contradicting both the themes of the book and the show's own characterisation of one of its main characters.

It also works the other way. If Daenerys rejects the customs of Meeren there, it'll work as rejecting bullfighting as well. Although I understand what you are saying.

[Ingelheim]

Good God - please keep this going - I'm about to split I'm laughing so hard -

so holier-than-thou and ready to pass blanket judgements...

Well, I'll see your "they wouldn't go to the ring" and raise you "they shouldn't go to the country".

your bet...

I think you still don't get I hate bullfighting. I live 200 meters away from La Plaza de Toros of Madrid. 50,000 souls can get into there.

And, years after living here, I haven't spend a single euro supporting it.

If you are against bullfighting, don't support bullfighting. Just like that.

[PatrickStormborn]

It also works the other way. If Daenerys rejects the customs of Meeren there, it'll work as rejecting bullfighting as well. Although I understand what you are saying.

Well, no. The bullring is still profiting from it, after all.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Maybe the producers don't really mind about bullfighting. Does that make them evil? Bloodthirsty? According to google, 29% people in Spain are ok with BF (and 13% are strong supporters). Are they savage? Primitive? Ignorant? That's pretty much almost 1/3 of the country.

Vargas LLosa is an spanish-peruvian writer, winner of Nobel Prize in 2011. He has actively defended Bullfighting as he as also heavily accused dictatorial regimes across the world in his speeches and books.

Andres Calamaro is a singer from Argentina, that has often talked about social differences, discriminations and has critized the regime there. And he also likes BF.

Cantinflas, famous mexican actor. Not only he endorsed BF, he was a bullfighter himself, and his more famous movies depict him actually inside the bullring, doing the stunts.

And many, many, many more.

I dunno if there is a point, but I doubt anyone buying a book from Vargas Llosa, a movie from Cantinflas or a CD from Calamaro is indirectly supporting bullfighting or thinking is ok. Or just because they go to a bullring, and they are photographed there, others will do the same out of admiration. Joaquin Sabina, a spanish singer also is a fan of BF and he has said that he won't stop going, but he won't say others that they should go if they don't like it. but he often praises it. So, if anyone feels uncomfortable about GoT filming there, they have too options, mostly: not watch in protest or watch it and ignore it.

[WalkerOfWhite]

oh I get what you're saying - but you can't really hate it - otherwise you wouldn't live so close to the ring.

That logic is within the same realm as the logic you're using. You support the neighborhood of the bullring by living there, spending your money there. This benefits the bullring - directly, since a run-down neighborhood wouldn't attract so many people, and there would be fewer people attending the bullfights.