Why Would Rhaegar Not Marry a Targaryen?

[Lopsang]

The Targaryens, it's made very clear, mate and marry within their bloodline to keep the royal blood pure. Why would Rhaegar marry Elia of Dorne, not a Targaryen? Why only sometimes is it that Targaryens intermarry? If they understand the political benefits of marrying outside the family to create alliances, why do they sometimes still use incest?

[Trickrs]

There was available Targs for Rhaegar?

Viserys even says that is "Dany's fault" that she borns too late to marry Rhaegar and she replys that is Viserys' fault for being a guy and stuff.

[Cheesedude]

Yeah, there weren't any. Elia is probably the closest thing to a Targ that Rhaegar could have married.

If either Robert or Stannis had been female though....

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

There were no Targaryens available for Rhaegar to marry when he came of age. (Check out the Targ family tree.)

Viserys even says that is "Dany's fault" that she borns too late to marry Rhaegar and she replys that is Viserys' fault for being a guy and stuff.

You beat me to it.

A better question are "Who were Rhaegar's available choices?" He'd likely marry a LP's daughter, or someone from one of the oldest houses that wasn't LP (like Hightower). So list all of those houses, figure out which had daughters, and... there you have the problem.

The RR/WotU generation seemed to have a shortage of available daughters. The families seemed pretty small, too -- no one in Hoster, Jon, Rickard, etc's generation among the LPs had families as big as Ned and Catelyn's. Was Hoster the only LP who had two eligible daughters back then? Very interesting, and very relevant.

[James Arryn]

Well, this was Steffon's mission.

[Lord Damian]

Elia was the only woman of proper birth and age that had targ blood in her lineage for Rhaegar to marry. I think Reagar was agreeable with that, probably because of the prophecy of his life and eventual kids. I also think that Rhaegar knew and chose Lyanna as I suspect the starks have Targ lineage from a younger daughter of Aegon V (EGG) whose older sister is the Baratheon great-grandmother etc.. Ned admitted to Cersei that he had a claim but Robert had the better one. Still, there is a claim (blood) to the Iron throne.

[Good Guy Garlan]

There were no Targaryens available for Rhaegar to marry when he came of age. (Check out the Targ family tree.)

You beat me to it.

A better question are "Who were Rhaegar's available choices?" He'd likely marry a LP's daughter, or someone from one of the oldest houses that wasn't LP (like Hightower). So list all of those houses, figure out which had daughters, and... there you have the problem.

The RR/WotU generation seemed to have a shortage of available daughters. The families seemed pretty small, too -- no one in Hoster, Jon, Rickard, etc's generation among the LPs had families as big as Ned and Catelyn's. Was Hoster the only LP who had two eligible daughters back then? Very interesting, and very relevant.

There was Cersei...Alys Arryn (if she wasn't betrothed by then)...and there are a lot of Hightower girls, some had to be around that time, maybe even Lynesse (who I think Robert should have married instead of Cersei, by the way, but that's another topic)

[James Arryn]

Elia was the only woman of proper birth and age that had targ blood in her lineage for Rhaegar to marry. I think Reagar was agreeable with that, probably because of the prophecy of his life and eventual kids. I also think that Rhaegar knew and chose Lyanna as I suspect the starks have Targ lineage from a younger daughter of Aegon V (EGG) whose older sister is the Baratheon great-grandmother etc.. Ned admitted to Cersei that he had a claim but Robert had the better one. Still, there is a claim (blood) to the Iron throne.

I don't think Rhaegar chose anything.

[jon rhaegar stark]

I don't think Rhaegar chose anything.

yes when Steffon failed

i think only options left were Cersei or Elia and Aerys chose Dorne instead of Tywin

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

I buy that Aerys was looking for a girl with Targaryen or Valyrian ancestry. That makes sense.

And thanks for the reminder of Steffon's mission. Even long before either man met Lyanna Stark, I'm sure Robert Baratheon didn't love the fact that his parents died when the king sent them bride hunting for Rhaegar. So in a sense, not only did he lose his bride to the dragon prince's needs, long before that, he lost his parents due to something the prince needed, too.

(I know, Rhaegar didn't send the Baratheons on that mission, his father did, but I'll bet it was just one more thing Robert could have been thinking as he swung that hammer on the Trident...)

[JonCon's Red Beard]

He should have married Robert.

None of this would have happened if he had married Robert. :/

[James Arryn]

yes when Steffon failed

i think only options left were Cersei or Elia and Aerys chose Dorne instead of Tywin

Right, Aerys chose. Rhaegar didn't have any say in the matter. Contrary to some opinions, neither gender seems to get much say in who they marry until they become heads of their own house.

[Baela of Pentos]

The Targaryen family tree looks like it thinned out considerably. Egg, being a fourth son of a fourth son of Daeron the Good, become king.

Another thread few days ago was just talking about whatever happened to Egg's (few surviving) cousins and his third son. (First died at Summerhall, second was Rhaegar's grandfather.)

There are some candidates from LPs besides the two Rhaegar got: Mace Tyrell's 2 sisters (not sure who, if any, was already wedded), Cersei, Lysa Tully was not yet promised, Leyton Hightower had many daughters.

But if the daughter of a hand and Warden of the West wasn't good enough by Aerys' standard, not sure who'd be left besides Elia, who's a princess in her own right.

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

He should have married Robert.

None of this would have happened if he had married Robert. :/

:lmao: That would have prevented Robert's Rebellion for sure!

And Lyanna would've been happily ensconced at Winterfell for the rest of her days. #sigh

[UVA]

But if the daughter of a hand and Warden of the West wasn't good enough by Aerys' standard, not sure who'd be left besides Elia, who's a princess in her own right.

I tend to think that having been slighted by Tywin when he rejected the proposed marriages of Jaime-Elia and Oberyn-Cersei, Elia's mother pitched her daughter's Targ ancestry to Aerys as well as played on the king's paranoia and desire to put down Tywin (the whole "I wont wed my heir to my servant's daughter").

[Lopsang]

Where in the family is Elia a Targaryen? I don't remember.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Where in the family is Elia a Targaryen? I don't remember.

She's not a Targaryen. Daenerys Targaryen, sister of Daeron II was sent to Dorne to integrate Dorne into the Realm, and married the Martell Prince of that time. He also married a Martell Princess. So, the Martells have Targaryen ancestry, as well as the Targaryens have some Martell blood.

[Baela of Pentos]

I tend to think that having been slighted by Tywin when he rejected the proposed marriages of Jaime-Elia and Oberyn-Cersei, Elia's mother pitched her daughter's Targ ancestry to Aerys as well as played on the king's paranoia and desire to put down Tywin (the whole "I wont wed my heir to my servant's daughter").

3-way dis. Well played.

Not to defend Aerys' paranoia, but the last time a Targaryen king marrying the daughter of the hand that we know of (Alicent Hightower), she was also a schemer. Look where that lead...

[Baela of Pentos]

:lmao: That would have prevented Robert's Rebellion for sure!

And Lyanna would've been happily ensconced at Winterfell for the rest of her days. #sigh

Only if... knowing the Southron ambition Maester Walys put in Lord Rickard, it could have been Jaime, or Stannis (who would have been the lord of storms end).

I wonder who would have driven who to insanity first, Lyanna or Stannis...

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Not to defend Aerys' paranoia, but the last time a Targaryen king marrying the daughter of the hand that we know of (Alicent Hightower), she was also a schemer. Look where that lead...

Nice catch, it's true.

I said in another thread, Aerys knew what kind of man Tywin was. He knew that, in the chance he and Rhaegar died, a son of Rhaegar and Cersei would be probably a puppet of Tywin, and he would likely name himself Hand and Regent, and rule the 7K under a Lannister banner. Which is exactly what he did with Joffrey.

But if the daughter of a hand and Warden of the West wasn't good enough by Aerys' standard, not sure who'd be left besides Elia, who's a princess in her own right.

A Princess of Dorne isn't more than the daughter or sister of a Liege Lord. The title is pretty much something they kept but it has no other special meaning or power.