The Notorious Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 http://m.nydailynews.com/sports/football/stasi-ray-rice-wife-janay-palmer-therapy-defense-husband-article-1.1934262I generally don't really care much about football or the NFL .... but that woman's decision to still go ahead and marry the guy who beats the shit out of her floored me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Lev,To answer your question, no, but is it our place to judge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Notorious Posted September 10, 2014 Author Share Posted September 10, 2014 Scot, i think People can have opinion whether or not they will act the same under similar circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baxus Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Lev,To answer your question, no, but is it our place to judge?Actually, "judge" is too harsh a word."Have an opinion" would be more to the mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Baxus,My point is that I wouldn't make the decision she did, but, isn't it her call? In other words I do see the point of the thread but I think we should be careful how we express that opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baxus Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Baxus,My point is that I wouldn't make the decision she did, but, isn't it her call?Sure it's her call.The same way it's our call to form an opinion based on her call. This is not something that's open to interpretation.It was not a case of "I was unaware of my strength when I shoved her and she tripped and fell" (which would still be an asshole move, but could possibly fall under "things got out of hand").It was a closed fist punch and the guy knocked her out cold.Even I, half the world away and with zero interest in American football, have seen the video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Look up the hashtags #WhyIStayed & #WhyILeft on Twitter. Should bring up a variety of psychological issues involved with abusers. One thing to keep in mind is that rape culture is a subset of a larger culture telling women to stick it out, stand by your man, marry the first person you fuck or even let finger you, and a bunch of garbage we've inherited from works as varied as the Bible, the Koran, the Laws of Manu, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Baxus,It's horrifying. No argument there. If it happened to my daughter or sister I'd want them to leave, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Notorious Posted September 10, 2014 Author Share Posted September 10, 2014 Look up the hashtags #WhyIStayed & #WhyILeft on Twitter. Should bring up a variety of psychological issues involved with abusers. One thing to keep in mind is that rape culture is a subset of a larger culture telling women to stick it out, stand by your man, marry the first person you fuck or even let finger you, and a bunch of garbage we've inherited from works as varied as the Bible, the Koran, the Laws of Manu, etc. I don't know man, I think financial comfort/dependence has a large role to play here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 I don't know man, I think financial comfort/dependence has a large role to play here. So you're a telepath, reading her mind? But I guess making her a gold digger helps let the guy who throws footballs well a bit off the hook right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Notorious Posted September 10, 2014 Author Share Posted September 10, 2014 So you're a telepath, reading her mind? But I guess making her a gold digger helps let the guy who throws footballs well a bit off the hook right? Well I sure wasn't trying to speculate about her cultural background since I don't know that. And who's getting off the the hook? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Well I sure wasn't trying to speculate about her cultural background since I don't know that. And who's getting off the the hook? Yeah, apologies, was just reading some of those abuse accounts and I flashed back to experiences of friends of mine and my time volunteering at women's shelters. I just don't think we can speculate that much on why she stayed. I also think it's a mistake to presume that it had to do with financial comfort, though that may have played a role the issue is how victims of abuse are painted as having a hand in their own suffering. Why I'm wary of suggestions that she stayed for the lifestyle, as this becomes the assumption of any woman in a violent situation with a wealthy man. One of my friends worked at a domestic violence survivor assistance program. There was a lot of complexity involved in why people stay. In many cases it has to do with feelings of not deserving better, or that a woman's lot is to stay loyal. It's very similar to rape culture, in that society tells women they cause their own suffering b/c men can't control themselves. eta: Just look at marriage advice from the 1950s In March 1957, in the case of ‘Josh’ and ‘Elsa’, Elsa reported that Josh hit her after he came home late from an office party. In the course of her description of their relationship, Elsa tells the counsellor that when their daughter Sally was born: ‘Josh showed plainly his disappointment that the baby wasn’t a boy.’ ‘When the baby and I came home,’ she added, ‘I stayed in bed and let him prepare his own breakfast. He was outraged and yelled so furiously all the neighbours heard him.’ Elsa told the counsellor that she was absolutely miserable in her marriage: ‘When [Josh] abuses me in the presence of our children, when he humiliates me before the neighbours, I want to curl up and die. There is an ache deep in my chest, in my heart. I feel physically sick.’ The counsellor wrote that Elsa was ‘jolted and shocked when I told her she was partly at fault’. This wife needed to be convinced out of her own self-righteous understanding of the situation, the counsellor argued. ‘If she wanted a serene family life, she would have to learn to give Josh what he wanted from their marriage and thereby help him control his temper.’ In Sue’s case, the counsellor found that her husband ‘Jack’ needed to ‘master his temper’, a simple trick accomplished after ‘a single consultation proved to him that his temper was not “inherited” but represented a poor pattern established in his childhood’. But it was Sue who had the most work to do. She showed a lack of insight – she didn’t understand her husband. By refusing to have sex with him after he hit her, ‘she… touched off another almost inevitable explosion. Many husbands endeavour to make up for their misdeeds by such ardour, a fact of life that wise and loving wives accept.’ Sue had to systematise her housework in order to get good at it – a recommendation that reflected Popenoe’s professional roots in the efficiency-happy 1920s. The happy ending: Sue ‘spends 15 minutes every morning planning and writing down a list of daily tasks. Any specific request of Jack’s takes top position on the list. As she acquits each task, she checks it off the list. This means she finishes one job before she begins another.’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balefont Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Why Don't Women Leave Violent Partners? - fear of retaliation - lack of alternative means of economic support - concern for their children - lack of support from family and friends - stigma or fear of losing custody of children associated with divorce - love and hope that the partner will change Not to mention how many women are killed after they leave a violent partner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 No, I wouldn't marry him but no way in hell am I shifting my blame on her for staying and not on him for being a SCUMBAG. There are a host of reasons that are a bit more fucking substantial than her being a gold-digger. By asking this very question we are forced to focus on her and her decision and not his disgusting actions. I really hope he doesn't hurt her again and if he does I hope she finds a way to seek help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Notorious Posted September 10, 2014 Author Share Posted September 10, 2014 By asking this very question we are forced to focus on her and her decision and not his disgusting actions. It doesn't. He was fired from his job, the NFL is facing massive public scrutiny, and he would have faced criminal charges if she didn't withdrawn her charge against him. To try to make this a "blame the victim" argument is a cheap tactic from those who don't know the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Theda,Indeed Mr. Rice is the shitbag here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Fool Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Would I marry the person? But that's a moot question, he never asked me to marry him. Nobody ever does. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 It doesn't. He was fired from his job, the NFL is facing massive public scrutiny, and he would have faced criminal charges if she didn't withdrawn her charge against him. To try to make this a "blame the victim" argument is a cheap tactic from those who don't know the facts.A cheap tactic? At what? I have no agenda here. I just think this is a dumb question that is framed poorly and a bad way to introduce this story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Notorious Posted September 10, 2014 Author Share Posted September 10, 2014 Theda,Indeed Mr. Rice is the shitbag here. Yes, and it is quite frustrating to see him get away from facing criminal charges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Notorious Posted September 10, 2014 Author Share Posted September 10, 2014 Thank you very much for sharing such personal info, chataya. I'm also very glad/happy that you've ended the abusive relationships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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