Littlefingers loose threads

[fellow reader]

Littlefinger is so successful in manipulating everyone because no one knows about nearly a fraction of the things he has done. All those who know a few things either profited directly from it and it would harm themselves if they talked about it or are in a position which makes them unable to expose something. Littlefinger almost always acts by influencing others to do his bidding which they often do not even notice, but what is more important, he tries to keep his involvement as hidden as possible and covers his tracks. His success depends on his image as this guy who is very helpful but completely powerless on his own. The powerful think they use him, but actually, it is him who is using them. He set the Starks and Lannisters on each other starting a devastating civil war, had likely embezzled a lot from the realm in the years as Master of Coin, he grabbed control over a second region through murdering his own wife and even successfully plotted kingslaying, but got away clean with everything. Aside from a few weak suspicions about Lysas death, no one even thinks of the possibility of his involvement in those crimes.

Like he himself said, he tries to make sure to always keep his hands clean.

But he has not been completely successful with that. There are some loose threads in his net of machinations which could lead to his downfall. Because if his involvement in creating the desaster in which Westeros is stuck now and his playing all sides against each other in order to achieve his own goals gets known, he is a dead man. He has been loyal to no one and basically used and betrayed everyone to varying degrees. No one would ever again be foolish enough to take the risk of having him around.

So I start to list some loose threads and where they could be discovered.

-embezzling from the realm->as Master of coin, Tyrion started to have a closer look at what Littlefinger had been doing and some things he discovered scream that something is going on beneath the surface, but he had not enough time for further investigation

-Janos Slynt and his corruption->Stannis knows about Littlefingers involvement

-Jon Arryns death->"Lysas mad ramblings", Sansa dismissed Lysas words as that for now, but she has heard them

-Lysas letter to Catelyn blaming the Lannisters->"Lysas mad ramblings"

-the dagger lie->Varys knows, Tyrion knows, Catelyn concluded it after comparing Tyrions and Jaimes statements but did not want to believe it

-betrayal of Ned->Cersei knows and the guards in the throne room saw it, they are unlikely to talk, but there is still a certain gravedigger who was also present; Varys strongly implied that Littlefinger also convinced Joffrey to behead Ned

-Jeyne Poole->she is no longer in the hands of the Boltons, but still officially "Arya"; perhaps she gets a chance to tell her story

-the Kettleblacks->one has already been whipped for information, he might have revealed more than just what he did for Cersei

-Joffreys death->Littlefinger and Olenna or more Tyrells planned it, and Sansa knows this and still has the hairnet

-Alayne Stone=Sansa->the simple fact that he hides this alleged kingslayer makes him a traitor to the Iron Throne

-Lysas death->Sansa knows

-the trick during his negotiation with the lords declarant->Sansa knows, Lyn Corbray might fail with the infiltration or get other ideas

Did you find more loose threads?

[Burning down the House]

Nice list. I think Sansa will be the downfall of Littlefinger.

[WeaselPie]

per SSM's, Petyr is "sane" and has a "hidden influence" over Joffrey.

- It's absolutely probable Petyr set up the Lannisters against the iron bank , But why would he set up the throne against the Iron Bank? His OWN motivations. You need to ask what those motivation are.

- Jon Arryn's death is moot because we already know the truth... that Petyr manipulated Lysa with a promise of lurve. Motivation? We already have it, control of the Vale and Harrenhal.

- the dagger, Robert taunts Jaime with the dagger.and Jaime later presumes Robert won it for a wager. A mystery to most POV's but we know Petyr's story to Cat and Ned is total BS. Motivation?

-betrayal of Ned, see above, motivation?

- Joff's death, Sansa has it figured out, and Petyr isn't an idiot, he would know Sasna would figure it out... motivation?

There are no loose ends, there is only a discussion of Petyr's calculated actions throughout the series, and that is the answer.

[ache]

Lothor Brune is a pretty big one in my opinion. He knows more than enough to hang Littlefinger and the only thing keeping him onside that we know of is that Littlefinger is paying him.

[Poncio]

Before I start: Littlefinger is my favourite character.

I think you forgot one of the most important threats: Penny. She hasn't seen Oswell Kettleblack, but she knows his name, and she is so dangerously near to Tyrion. I think a Tyrion vs Baelish showdown is inevitable and this is the only possible lead for the Imp to discover who framed him for Joffrey's murder.

BUT! Baelish has also a wonderful resource of this kind. It is quite agreed that he is waiting for Daenerys' arrival, mostly because of the famous tapestries he asked the crown. What people usually forget is that Baelish once saved Daenerys' life. When in AGOT Robert discusses with the small council in order to kill Dany, Varys proposes to hire a faceless man, while LF convinces to simply give a reward to the bounty haunter. Later he explains Ned that this move will, with any luck, save the girl's life - as it does happen indeed.

This may seem ridicolous and insignificant, but there was a precious witness in the small council room at that time: ser Barristan Selmy. And so everyday I pray to the old gods and the new he survives the battle of fire. :bowdown:

[Lord Damian]

Littlefinger is a master embezzeler, blackmailer, murderer and deceiver. Probably, the most sophisticatied "villain" in this series and there are many to choose from. His greatest threat is Yonce Royce, he cannot be bribed is clearly on to him and wants him out of the Vale. Sansa has thought to herself to try and reach out to him for protection as she seem to think he might have remembered her from taking his son to stop at Winterfell on the way to the wall. with the books coming to a close, I would love to see a littlefinger pov but I doubt we will get it. he is so dangerous for Sansa, she might have been safer in Kings Landing and not even know it.

[Poppa Chase]

Before I start: Littlefinger is my favourite character.

I think you forgot one of the most important threats: Penny. She hasn't seen Oswell Kettleblack, but she knows his name, and she is so dangerously near to Tyrion. I think a Tyrion vs Baelish showdown is inevitable and this is the only possible lead for the Imp to discover who framed him for Joffrey's murder.

BUT! Baelish has also a wonderful resource of this kind. It is quite agreed that he is waiting for Daenerys' arrival, mostly because of the famous tapestries he asked the crown. What people usually forget is that Baelish once saved Daenerys' life. When in AGOT Robert discusses with the small council in order to kill Dany, Varys proposes to hire a faceless man, while LF convinces to simply give a reward to the bounty haunter. Later he explains Ned that this move will, with any luck, save the girl's life - as it does happen indeed.

This may seem ridicolous and insignificant, but there was a precious witness in the small council room at that time: ser Barristan Selmy. And so everyday I pray to the old gods and the new he survives the battle of fire. :bowdown:

I think you'll be pretty safe in the battle with fire. He will live to see Baelish again.

The Yunkish camp is all but deteriorated from the pale mare by the time the battle begins imo.

[Janicia]

Littlefinger has been willing to take big risks in the past and go out on limbs - he's guessed right and been lucky, but he does take risks.

When he lied to Ned and Catelyn about the knife, Littlefinger could easily have been caught. If Ned had privately checked Littlefinger's story with any member of court / Kingsguard, it would have been revealed as a lie - that knife was distinctive and known to be Roberts, and Tyrion would never have bet against Jaime.

Littlefinger's direct connection to Joffrey was risky too - who knows what a sociopathic 13 year old is going to say or do, and how his violent parents might react to your connection with him.

Similarly, conspiring with Lysa was super risky since she's not a sane actor and he left her alone for a long period of time after getting her to marry Jon. What if she'd gotten lonely or scared and started trouble?

[Poppa Chase]

He tied up some pretty important ones.

Jon Arryn

Eddard Stark

Joffrey Baratheon

Lysa Arryn

All for being too noble or too unpredictable.

[fellow reader]

He tied up some pretty important ones.

Jon Arryn------------------->"Lysas mad ramblings"

Eddard Stark-------------->everyone who was present in the throne room saw his betrayal, Varys seems to know of him influencing Joffrey to behead Ned

Joffrey Baratheon-------->Olenna and perhaps more Tyrells, Sansa and the hairnet

Lysa Arryn------------------>Sansa

All for being too noble or too unpredictable.

Yes, they certainly cannot reveal anything anymore, but the knowledge of his involvement in their deaths is still there.

[Poppa Chase]

Yes, they certainly cannot reveal anything anymore, but the knowledge of his involvement in their deaths is still there.

Hes pretty much boned on the throne room situation. Unless he is planning on killing people located throughout the known world.

And I doubt he would kill Sansa. It's possible he could kill Lady O and he could get rid of the hairnet.

But I think he will leave those alone, because they don't have a chance of hurting him with info that won't also affect them. All of the others had to die.

[Blackfish Tully]

Littlefinger has been willing to take big risks in the past and go out on limbs - he's guessed right and been lucky, but he does take risks.

When he lied to Ned and Catelyn about the knife, Littlefinger could easily have been caught. If Ned had privately checked Littlefinger's story with any member of court / Kingsguard, it would have been revealed as a lie - that knife was distinctive and known to be Roberts, and Tyrion would never have bet against Jaime.

Littlefinger's direct connection to Joffrey was risky too - who knows what a sociopathic 13 year old is going to say or do, and how his violent parents might react to your connection with him.

Similarly, conspiring with Lysa was super risky since she's not a sane actor and he left her alone for a long period of time after getting her to marry Jon. What if she'd gotten lonely or scared and started trouble?

Who in the court or Kingsguard would remember a bet Littlefinger or Tyrion made months before? I'm sure there are hundreds of bets made during a tournament and I doubt anybody paid paticular attention to this one bet. Even if Ned found somebody then Littlefinger could simply say the other person is mistaken or that Littlefinger had been drinking and must have misrembered the bet. Ned might suspect that Littlefinger is lying but he would have no proof of that.

[fellow reader]

motivation?

There are no loose ends, there is only a discussion of Petyr's calculated actions throughout the series, and that is the answer.

I think you might have misunderstood me. There is no doubt that Littlefingers actions are calculated, he certainly is not an idiot. I intended to list where Littlefinger failed to cover his tracks, where there is still someone (or something) left who could reveal what he did.

But if you are looking for his motivations, let me give you my guesses:

- It's absolutely probable Petyr set up the Lannisters against the iron bank , But why would he set up the throne against the Iron Bank? His OWN motivations. You need to ask what those motivation are.

Littlefinger became Master of Coin through Jon Arryn(thanks to Lysa) and already embezzled from the crown during Roberts reign. His motivation: MONEY!!! He is very likely responsible for the enormous amount of dept, perhaps even planning to destabilize the realm by bankrupting it. He himself said he expected Cersei to mess up, but was surprised that she did it so fast. I think he meant Cerseis refusal to pay the Iron Bank. So he created the debt, but it was Cersei who made them her enemy and caused them to support Stannis.

- Jon Arryn's death is moot because we already know the truth... that Petyr manipulated Lysa with a promise of lurve. Motivation? We already have it, control of the Vale and Harrenhal.

Littlefinger could not have known that he would get Harrenhal. He used Jon Arryns death to set the Starks and Lannisters against each other. Remember the letter to Catelyn Lysa wrote for him.

- the dagger, Robert taunts Jaime with the dagger.and Jaime later presumes Robert won it for a wager. A mystery to most POV's but we know Petyr's story to Cat and Ned is total BS. Motivation?

Why did he lie about the dagger? Same as above, he wanted to set the Starks and Lannisters against each other.

-betrayal of Ned, see above, motivation?

I already said he had set the Starks (and by extention the Tullys) against the Lannisters in order to let them be destroyed by the "Rains of Castamere" Tywin . That was just one important step, he removed the head of House Stark. Why? Petyr wanted revenge on the Starks and Tullys for having been denied his "object of desire"=Catelyn and the duel with Brandon. It is not a coincidence that Petyr did his best to point Ned towards the incest and always supported the Lannisters in the war. (preventing Ned to leave Kings Landing, preventing to send Loras after Gregor, betrayal of Ned-> this left the Starks in a very bad position with only the Tullys as allies; negotiating the alliance with the Tyrells,...). Oh, and as soon as Ned was in the black cells and out of the way, he asked Cersei to marry Sansa, this younger and more beautiful version of his former object of desire, to him. And Varys strongly implied that Littlefinger convinced Joffrey to behead Ned.

- Joff's death, Sansa has it figured out, and Petyr isn't an idiot, he would know Sasna would figure it out... motivation?

Why would Petyr tell Sansa that he was involved in the death of her tormentor? Because he wants to present himself as the hero who rescued her. She does not know that she actually has to thank him for having been in the hands of the Lannisters. If he had not betrayed Ned, Cersei+children and the capital would have been under Neds control(very bad for the Lannisters if their "king" is captured) and both girls would have been on their way to Winterfell.

[aryagonnakill#2]

The OP should include the senior Kettleblack, the 1 who was with Sansa and Dontos and Baelish on the blackwater. He sent all of his sons to work for Baelish and they all might die in the process.

[Direwolf Blitzer]

Forgive my ignorance, but what's the evidence that Littlefinger conspired with Olenna to kill Joffrey? I always assumed Olenna was a tough old broad who wasn't about to let her daughter wed a madman.

And as far as "who framed Tyrion," did anyone? Cersei orders his arrest immediately, before Joff's body is cold. Again, I assumed this was Cersei thinking that Tyrion had made good on his threat, that one day her joy would "turn to ashes."

I DO wonder what his endgame is, and am intrigued by a poster's suggestion that he envisions a place of power in a future Targaryen administration.

[Lopsang]

Forgive my ignorance, but what's the evidence that Littlefinger conspired with Olenna to kill Joffrey? I always assumed Olenna was a tough old broad who wasn't about to let her daughter wed a madman.

And as far as "who framed Tyrion," did anyone? Cersei orders his arrest immediately, before Joff's body is cold. Again, I assumed this was Cersei thinking that Tyrion had made good on his threat, that one day her joy would "turn to ashes."

I DO wonder what his endgame is, and am intrigued by a poster's suggestion that he envisions a place of power in a future Targaryen administration.

It's revealed that Littlefinger and Olenna worked together to kill Joff. That's why, when they were going to ask Margaery Tyrell to wed Joff, Littlefinger elected himself to go. Cersei and Tyrion both were wary of this. He took a long time to come back, and Tyrion dismissed this simply as him taking a long time to convince the Tyrells to make a marriage pact with the Lannisters. It was really because Littlefinger was conspiring with Olenna to poison Joff. Tyrion WAS framed, not necessarily by Cersei but just in the way Littlefinger had planned. The whole show with the dwarves, the ever-widening rift between Tyrion and Joff, etc. Sansa's hairnet had some poison on it which is what one of the Tyrells put in Joff's drink/pie. Littlefinger tells all of this to Sansa after she escapes.

[aryagonnakill#2]

Another loose end/ tie in of 2 different loose ends is that Sansa knows Lothor Brune has a thing for Mya Stone, who's own crush is being gay raped by Lyn Corbray.

[fellow reader]

Another loose end/ tie in of 2 different loose ends is that Sansa knows Lothor Brune has a thing for Mya Stone, who's own crush is being gay raped by Lyn Corbray.

??????????????

His former squire MycheI Redfort? I doubt that Lyn Corbray could abuse/rape a member of a powerful noble house without consequences. The boys he gets from Littlefinger are likely defencelss sex slaves like Jeyne Poole.

[aryagonnakill#2]

^ Mya talks to Catlyn about the man she loves all the way back in AGOT, and the guy is Lyn Corbrays squire. She also talks about how he is old for a squire and how he should have been knighted by that point. Catlyn thinks that his parents will never allow him to marry a bastard even tho he swears to Mya that he loves her and will marry her. Later in Feast for Crows LF tells Sansa that the thing Lyn Corbray likes is young men and that that's a secret he can't let get out. So in my mind he's molesting his squire, tho perhaps its consensual.

[fellow reader]

^ Mya talks to Catlyn about the man she loves all the way back in AGOT, and the guy is Lyn Corbrays squire. She also talks about how he is old for a squire and how he should have been knighted by that point. Catlyn thinks that his parents will never allow him to marry a bastard even tho he swears to Mya that he loves her and will marry her. Later in Feast for Crows LF tells Sansa that the thing Lyn Corbray likes is young men and that that's a secret he can't let get out. So in my mind he's molesting his squire, tho perhaps its consensual.

We do not know if there ever was any sexual interaction between those two. It would be much saver to only use Littlefingers sex slaves because they cannot do anything against him. Mychel Redfort is a member of a powerful house, one word to his father lord Horton Redfort and Lyn Corbray would be in serious trouble.