Eddard Stark stupid, incompetent, hypocritical moralizer.

[AliceRose]

Eddard Stark stupid, incompetent, hypocritical moralizer.

AGOT 6 CATELYN

Ned looked irritated. “Been left? By whom? Has there been a rider? I was not told.”

“There was no rider, my lord. Only a carved wooden box, left on a table in my observatory while I napped. My servants saw no one, but it must have been brought by someone in the king’s party. We have had no other visitors from the south.”

“A wooden box, you say?” Catelyn said.

“Inside was a fine new lens for the observatory, from Myr by the look of it. The lenscrafters of Myr are without equal.”

Ned frowned. He had little patience for this sort of thing, Catelyn knew. “A lens,” he said. “What has that to do with me?”

“I asked the same question,” Maester Luwin said. “Clearly there was more to this than the seeming.”

Eddard Stark has the great fortune to be lord paramount of the North, he has no right to be stupid. I don’t understand the way he behaves with political essays, he seems pleased with himself for not understand nothing. He should not be proud for being dumb.

Hypocritical hate for Lannisters. Tywin did not support Robert’s rebellion at the beginning because his son was a hostage of mad king. Ned and Robert rebelled against Targaryens and Ned thinks he is an honourable man. Jaime killed Aerys, but he is a traitor, Ned has no doubts, he always judges people with bias, he does not investigate real reasons behind the actions, his honourable mind is always certain of being right. Tywin Lannister is a skilled strategist, he know very well when is the time for an direct attack e and when is better to use intelligence. Eddard Stark does not understand when is proper to use some trick for the best of his own men.

AGOT 12 EDDARD

“Your Grace, may I speak frankly?”

“I seem unable to stop you,” Robert grumbled. They rode through tall brown grasses.

“Can you trust Jaime Lannister?”

“He is my wife’s twin, a Sworn Brother of the Kingsguard, his life and fortune and honor all bound to mine.”

“As they were bound to Aerys Targaryen’s,” Ned pointed out.

“Why should I mistrust him? He has done everything I have ever asked of him. His sword helped win the throne I sit on.”

His sword helped taint the throne you sit on, Ned thought, but he did not permit the words to pass his lips. “He swore a vow to protect his king’s life with his own. Then he opened that king’s throat with a sword.”

“Seven hells, someone had to kill Aerys!” Robert said, reining his mount to a sudden halt beside an ancient barrow. “If Jaime hadn’t done it, it would have been left for you or me.”

“We were not Sworn Brothers of the Kingsguard,” Ned said. The time had come for Robert to hear the whole truth, he decided then and there. “Do you remember the Trident, Your Grace?”

“I won my crown there. How should I forget it?”

“You took a wound from Rhaegar,” Ned reminded him. “So when the Targaryen host broke and ran, you gave the pursuit into my hands. The remnants of Rhaegar’s army fled back to King’s Landing. We followed. Aerys was in the Red Keep with several thousand loyalists. I expected to find the gates closed to us.”

Robert gave an impatient shake of his head. “Instead you found that our men had already taken the city. What of it?”

“Not our men,” Ned said patiently. “Lannister men. The lion of Lannister flew over the ramparts, not the crowned stag. And they had taken the city by treachery.”

The war had raged for close to a year. Lords great and small had flocked to Robert’s banners; others had remained loyal to Targaryen. The mighty Lannisters of Casterly Rock, the Wardens of the West, had remained aloof from the struggle, ignoring calls to arms from both rebels and royalists. Aerys Targaryen must have thought that his gods had answered his prayers when Lord Tywin Lannister appeared before the gates of King’s Landing with an army twelve thousand strong, professing loyalty. So the mad king had ordered his last mad act. He had opened his city to the lions at the gate.

“Treachery was a coin the Targaryens knew well,” Robert said. The anger was building in him again. “Lannister paid them back in kind. It was no less than they deserved. I shall not trouble my sleep over it.”

“You were not there,” Ned said, bitterness in his voice. Troubled sleep was no stranger to him. He had lived his lies for fourteen years, yet they still haunted him at night. “There was no honor in that conquest.”

“The Others take your honor!” Robert swore. “What did any Targaryen ever know of honor? Go down into your crypt and ask Lyanna about the dragon’s honor!”

“You avenged Lyanna at the Trident,” Ned said, halting beside the king. Promise me, Ned, she had whispered.

“That did not bring her back.” Robert looked away, off into the grey distance. “The gods be damned. It was a hollow victory they gave me. A crown... it was the girl I prayed them for. Your sister, safe... and mine again, as she was meant to be. I ask you, Ned, what good is it to wear a crown? The gods mock the prayers of kings and cowherds alike.”

“I cannot answer for the gods, Your Grace... only for what I found when I rode into the throne room that day,” Ned said. “Aerys was dead on the floor, drowned in his own blood. His dragon skulls stared down from the walls. Lannister’s men were everywhere. Jaime wore the white cloak of the Kingsguard over his golden armor. I can see him still. Even his sword was gilded. He was seated on the Iron Throne, high above his knights, wearing a helm fashioned in the shape of a lion’s head. How he glittered!”

“This is well known,” the king complained.

“I was still mounted. I rode the length of the hall in silence, between the long rows of dragon skulls. It felt as though they were watching me, somehow. I stopped in front of the throne, looking up at him. His golden sword was across his legs, its edge red with a king’s blood. My men were filling the room behind me. Lannister’s men drew back. I never said a word. I looked at him seated there on the throne, and I waited. At last Jaime laughed and got up. He took off his helm, and he said to me, ‘Have no fear, Stark. I was only keeping it warm for our friend Robert. It’s not a very comfortable seat, I’m afraid.’ “

The king threw back his head and roared. His laughter startled a flight of crows from the tall brown grass. They took to the air in a wild beating of wings. “You think I should mistrust Lannister because he sat on my throne for a few moments?” He shook with laughter again. “Jaime was all of seventeen, Ned. Scarce more than a boy.”

“Boy or man, he had no right to that throne.”

“Perhaps he was tired,” Robert suggested. “Killing kings is weary work. Gods know, there’s no place else to rest your ass in that damnable room. And he spoke truly, it is a monstrous uncomfortable chair. In more ways than one.” The king shook his head. “Well, now I know Jaime’s dark sin, and the matter can be forgotten. I am heartily sick of secrets and squabbles and matters of state, Ned.

Eddard killed Lady because he was a weak, submissive idiot. He was aware of the truth in the Darry incident, Sansa said what has happened. Ned was the lord of the biggest region of seven kingdoms, he was hand of the king and friend of the king. He has the power to protect Lady, but he chose to do nothing.

AGOT 16 EDDARD

“They were not the only ones present,” Ned said. “Sansa, come here.” Ned had heard her version of the story the night Arya had vanished. He knew the truth. “Tell us what happened.”

His eldest daughter stepped forward hesitantly. She was dressed in blue velvets trimmed with white, a silver chain around her neck. Her thick auburn hair had been brushed until it shone. She blinked at her sister, then at the young prince. “I don’t know,” she said tearfully, looking as though she wanted to bolt. “I don’t remember. Everything happened so fast, I didn’t see...”

“Stop them,” Sansa pleaded, “don’t let them do it, please, please, it wasn’t Lady, it was Nymeria, Arya did it, you can’t, it wasn’t Lady, don’t let them hurt Lady, I’ll make her be good, I promise, I promise...” She started to cry.

All Ned could do was take her in his arms and hold her while she wept. He looked across the room at Robert. His old friend, closer than any brother. “Please, Robert. For the love you bear me. For the love you bore my sister. Please.” It wasn't enough. I'm sure he was able to do more to protect an innocent and the truth.

The king looked at them for a long moment, then turned his eyes on his wife. “Damn you, Cersei,” he said with loathing.

Later, in prison Ned says that at Varys:

AGOT 58 EDDARD

“So what is your answer, Lord Eddard? Give me your word that you’ll tell the queen what she wants to hear when she comes calling.”

“If I did, my word would be as hollow as an empty suit of armor. My life is not so precious to me as that.”

“Pity.” The eunuch stood. “And your daughter’s life, my lord? How precious is that?”

But at Darry in front of his king, he allowed Sansa to lie, he didn't tell the truth by himself, he let kill an innocent boy and he let kill Lady, such a great honourable and coherent lord.

Let's talk about Mycah, he was Arya’s friend, he was innocent and he was just a boy but Ned did nothing for bring justice to him, but he did a great scandal about Dany.

AGOT 16 EDDARD

He was walking back to the tower to give himself up to sleep at last when Sandor Clegane and his riders came pounding through the castle gate, back from their hunt.

There was something slung over the back of his destrier, a heavy shape wrapped in a bloody cloak. “No sign of your daughter, Hand,” the Hound rasped down, “but the day was not wholly wasted. We got her little pet.” He reached back and shoved the burden off, and it fell with a thump in front of Ned.

Bending, Ned pulled back the cloak, dreading the words he would have to find for Arya, but it was not Nymeria after all. It was the butcher’s boy, Mycah, his body covered in dried blood. He had been cut almost in half from shoulder to waist by some terrible blow struck from above.

“You rode him down,” Ned said.

The Hound’s eyes seemed to glitter through the steel of that hideous dog’s-head helm. “He ran.” He looked at Ned’s face and laughed. “But not very fast.”

After Lady’s death Ned have a very moving dialog with Arya, he explains to his little girl the danger they are in, but he never had a decent talk with Sansa, he has never asked her excuses for Lady, he has never told to Sansa how wrong she was to tell lies and to not protect Arya.

A soft knock at the door behind her turned Arya away from the window and her dreams of escape. “Arya,” her father’s voice called out. “Open the door. We need to talk.”

Arya crossed the room and lifted the crossbar. Father was alone. He seemed more sad than angry. That made Arya feel even worse. “May I come in?” Arya nodded, then dropped her eyes, ashamed. Father closed the door. “Whose sword is that?”

“Mine.” Arya had almost forgotten Needle, in her hand.

“Give it to me.”

Reluctantly Arya surrendered her sword, wondering if she would ever hold it again. Her father turned it in the light, examining both sides of the blade. He tested the point with his thumb. “A bravo’s blade,” he said. “Yet it seems to me that I know this maker’s mark. This is Mikken’s work.”

Arya could not lie to him. She lowered her eyes.

Lord Eddard Stark sighed. “My nine-year-old daughter is being armed from my own forge, and I know nothing of it. The Hand of the King is expected to rule the Seven Kingdoms, yet it seems I cannot even rule my own household. How is it that you come to own a sword, Arya? Where did you get this?”

Arya chewed her lip and said nothing. She would not betray Jon, not even to their father.

After a while, Father said, “I don’t suppose it matters, truly.” He looked down gravely at the sword in his hands. “This is no toy for children, least of all for a girl. What would Septa Mordane say if she knew you were playing with swords?”

“I wasn’t playing,” Arya insisted. “I hate Septa Mordane.”

“That’s enough.” Her father’s voice was curt and hard. “The septa is doing no more than is her duty, though gods know you have made it a struggle for the poor woman. Your mother and I have charged her with the impossible task of making you a lady.”

“I don’t want to be a lady!” Arya flared.

“I ought to snap this toy across my knee here and now, and put an end to this nonsense.”

“Needle wouldn’t break,” Arya said defiantly, but her voice betrayed her words.

“It has a name, does it?” Her father sighed. “Ah, Arya. You have a wildness in you, child. ‘The wolf blood,’ my father used to call it. Lyanna had a touch of it, and my brother Brandon more than a touch. It brought them both to an early grave.” Arya heard sadness in his voice; he did not often speak of his father, or of the brother and sister who had died before she was born. “Lyanna might have carried a sword, if my lord father had allowed it. You remind me of her sometimes. You even look like her.”

“Lyanna was beautiful,” Arya said, startled. Everybody said so. It was not a thing that was ever said of Arya.

“She was,” Eddard Stark agreed, “beautiful, and willful, and dead before her time.” He lifted the sword, held it out between them. “Arya, what did you think to do with this... Needle? Who

did you hope to skewer? Your sister? Septa Mordane? Do you know the first thing about sword fighting?”

All she could think of was the lesson Jon had given her. “Stick them with the pointy end,” she blurted out.

Her father snorted back laughter. “That is the essence of it, I suppose.”

Arya desperately wanted to explain, to make him see. “I was trying to learn, but...” Her eyes filled with tears. “I asked Mycah to practice with me.” The grief came on her all at once. She turned away, shaking. “I asked him,” she cried. “It was my fault, it was me...”

Suddenly her father’s arms were around her. He held her gently as she turned to him and sobbed against his chest. “No, sweet one,” he murmured. “Grieve for your friend, but never blame yourself. You did not kill the butcher’s boy. That murder lies at the Hound’s door, him and the cruel woman he serves.”

“I hate them,” Arya confided, red-faced, sniffling. “The Hound and the queen and the king and Prince Joffrey. I hate all of them. Joffrey lied, it wasn’t the way he said. I hate Sansa too. She did remember, she just lied so Joffrey would like her.”

“We all lie,” her father said. “Or did you truly think I’d believe that Nymeria ran off?”

Arya blushed guiltily. “Jory promised not to tell.”

“Jory kept his word,” her father said with a smile. “There are some things I do not need to be told. Even a blind man could see that wolf would never have left you willingly.”

“We had to throw rocks,” she said miserably. “I told her to run, to go be free, that I didn’t want her anymore. There were other wolves for her to play with, we heard them howling, and Jory said the woods were full of game, so she’d have deer to hunt. Only she kept following, and finally we had to throw rocks. I hit her twice. She whined and looked at me and I felt so ‘shamed, but it was right, wasn’t it? The queen would have killed her.”

“It was right,” her father said. “And even the lie was... not without honor.” He’d put Needle aside when he went to Arya to embrace her. Now he took the blade up again and walked to the window, where he stood for a moment, looking out across the courtyard. When he turned back, his eyes were thoughtful. He seated himself on the window seat, Needle across his lap. “Arya, sit down. I need to try and explain some things to you.”

She perched anxiously on the edge of her bed. “You are too young to be burdened with all my cares,” he told her, “but you are also a Stark of Winterfell. You know our words.”

“Winter is coming, “ Arya whispered.

“The hard cruel times,” her father said. “We tasted them on the Trident, child, and when Bran fell. You were born in the long summer, sweet one, you’ve never known anything else, but now the winter is truly coming. Remember the sigil of our House, Arya.”

“The direwolf,” she said, thinking of Nymeria. She hugged her knees against her chest, suddenly afraid.

“Let me tell you something about wolves, child. When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives. Summer is the time for squabbles. In winter, we must protect one another, keep each other warm, share our strengths. So if you must hate, Arya, hate

those who would truly do us harm. Septa Mordane is a good woman, and Sansa... Sansa is your sister. You may be as different as the sun and the moon, but the same blood flows through both your hearts. You need her, as she needs you... and I need both of you, gods help me.”

He sounded so tired that it made Arya sad. “I don’t hate Sansa,” she told him. “Not truly.” It was only half a lie.

“I do not mean to frighten you, but neither will I lie to you. We have come to a dark dangerous place, child. This is not Winterfell. We have enemies who mean us ill. We cannot fight a war among ourselves. This willfulness of yours, the running off, the angry words, the disobedience... at home, these were only the summer games of a child. Here and now, with winter soon upon us, that is a different matter. It is time to begin growing up.”

“I will,” Arya vowed. She had never loved him so much as she did in that instant. “I can be strong too. I can be as strong as Robb.”

He held Needle out to her, hilt first. “Here...”

She looked at the sword with wonder in her eyes. For a moment she was afraid to touch it, afraid that if she reached for it it would be snatched away again, but then her father said, “Go on, it’s yours,” and she took it in her hand.

“I can keep it?” she said. “For true?”

“For true.” He smiled. “If I took it away, no doubt I’d find a morningstar hidden under your pillow within the fortnight. Try not to stab your sister, whatever the provocation.”

“I won’t. I promise.” Arya clutched Needle tightly to her chest as her father took his leave.

Sansa has no the real understanding of her father’s morality because he has never truly spoken to her. Ned has done a great work with his sons, but he ignored Sansa’s education. He thought it is important to make see an execution to a seven years old child, but it isn't ok to explain some matters of justice to the future queen. When Sansa saw Ned to manage the king’s justice for victims of the mountain, she was curious to understand better the reasons of her father decision, but Ned was angry when he saw her in the throne room. Ned didn't want Sansa to approach difficult questions, because in his mind a woman should not rule, so there is no need to share his experience with daughters. This is the first reason why Petyr is so successful with Sansa, he wants her to understand him, he makes a team with her, he pays attention for Sansa’s questions.

AGOT 44 SANSA

Her father’s decision still bewildered her. When the Knight of Flowers had spoken up, she’d been sure she was about to see one of Old Nan’s stories come to life. Ser Gregor was the monster and Ser Loras the true hero who would slay him. He even looked a true hero, so slim and beautiful, with golden roses around his slender waist and his rich brown hair tumbling down into his eyes. And then Father had refused him! It had upset her more than she could tell. She had said as much to Septa Mordane as they descended the stairs from the gallery, but the septa had only told her it was not her place to question her lord father’s decisions.

That was when Lord Baelish had said, “Oh, I don’t know, Septa. Some of her lord father’s decisions could do with a bit of questioning. The young lady is as wise as she is lovely.” He made a sweeping bow to Sansa, so deep she was not quite sure if she was being complimented or mocked.

Septa Mordane had been very upset to realize that Lord Baelish had overheard them. “The girl was just talking, my lord,” she’d said. “Foolish chatter. She meant nothing by the comment.”

Lord Baelish stroked his little pointed beard and said, “Nothing? Tell me, child, why would you have sent Ser Loras?”

Sansa had no choice but to explain about heroes and monsters. The king’s councillor smiled. “Well, those are not the reasons I’d have given, but...” He had touched her cheek, his thumb lightly tracing the line of a cheekbone. “Life is not a song, sweetling. You may learn that one day to your sorrow.”

AGOT 43 SANSA

He caught a glimpse of Septa Mordane in the gallery, with his daughter Sansa beside her. Ned felt a flash of anger; this was no place for a girl. But the septa could not have known that today’s court would be anything but the usual tedious business of hearing petitions, settling disputes between rival holdfasts, and adjudicating the placement of boundary stones.

There is another important example of how the education was only for boys.

AGOT 22 ARYA

Back at Winterfell, they had eaten in the Great Hall almost half the time. Her father used to say that a lord needed to eat with his men, if he hoped to keep them. “Know the men who follow you,” SHE HEARD HIM TELL ROBB ONCE, “and let them know you. Don’t ask your men to die for a stranger.” At Winterfell, he always had an extra seat set at his own table, and every day a different man would be asked to join him. One night it would be Vayon Poole, and the talk would be coppers and bread stores and servants. The next time it would be Mikken, and her father would listen to him go on about armor and swords and how hot a forge should be and the best way to temper steel. Another day it might be Hullen with his endless horse talk, or Septon Chayle from the library, or Jory, or Ser Rodrik, or even Old Nan with her stories.

First time Ned entered in the small council, he thought bad about Varys for no reason. Ned has no idea of real importance of eunuch’s work, he despised Varys for prejudice and not for some understandable reason. Like with Jaime Ned not investigates, his intuition about Varys might be right but he does not try to check some facts. I think Eddard is a very close mineded man, this defect will cost him everything.

AGOT 20 EDDARD

The councillor Ned liked least, the eunuch Varys, accosted him the moment he entered. “Lord Stark, I was grievous sad to hear about your troubles on the kingsroad. We have all been visiting the sept to light candles for Prince Joffrey. I pray for his recovery.” His hand left powder stains on Ned’s sleeve, and he smelled as foul and sweet as flowers on a grave.

Varys gave him two important advices, Ned ignored them with arrogance, he should listen some one more skilled and more experienced than he.

AGOT 43 EDDARD

At the base of the Iron Throne, Varys was gathering papers from the council table. Littlefinger and Grand Maester Pycelle had already taken their leave. “You are a bolder man than I, my lord,” the eunuch said softly.

“How so, Lord Varys?” Ned asked brusquely. His leg was throbbing, and he was in no mood for word games.

“Had it been me up there, I should have sent Ser Loras. He so wanted to go... and a man who has the Lannisters for his enemies would do well to make the Tyrells his friends.”

“Ser Loras is young,” said Ned. “I daresay he will outgrow the disappointment.”

The second time Ned acted like an idiot, he know Lannisters are power hungry, he knew Jaime killed a king and he broke his oath, he know Cersei doesn't stop in front of killing of an innocent child and she has already killed Jon Arryn. Varys told him the queen are planning to kill Robert, but Ned ignored all this information. He lost his head because it was an empty head not for his honour. There is no excuses for close your eyes in front of evidence.

AGOT 30 EDDARD

There are things you must know. You are the King’s Hand, and the king is a fool.” The eunuch’s cloying tones were gone; now his voice was thin and sharp as a whip. “Your friend, I know, yet a fool nonetheless... and doomed, unless you save him. Today was a near thing. They had hoped to kill him during the melee.”

For a moment Ned was speechless with shock. “Who?”

Varys sipped his wine. “If I truly need to tell you that, you are a bigger fool than Robert and I am on the wrong side.”

“The Lannisters,” Ned said. “The queen... no, I will not believe that, not even of Cersei. She asked him not to fight!”

“She forbade him to fight, in front of his brother, his knights, and half the court. Tell me truly, do you know any surer way to force King Robert into the melee? I ask you.”

Ned had a sick feeling in his gut. The eunuch had hit upon a truth; tell Robert Baratheon he could not, should not, or must not do a thing, and it was as good as done. “Even if he’d fought, who would have dared to strike the king?”

Varys shrugged. “There were forty riders in the melee. The Lannisters have many friends. Amidst all that chaos, with horses screaming and bones breaking and Thoros of Myr waving that absurd firesword of his, who could name it murder if some chance blow felled His Grace?” He went to the flagon and refilled his cup. “After the deed was done, the slayer would be beside himself with grief. I can almost hear him weeping. So sad. Yet no doubt the gracious and compassionate widow would take pity, lift the poor unfortunate to his feet, and bless him with a gentle kiss of forgiveness. Good King Joffrey would have no choice but to pardon him.” The eunuch stroked his cheek. “Or perhaps Cersei would let Ser Ilyn strike off his head. Less risk for the Lannisters that way, though quite an unpleasant surprise for their little friend.”

Ned felt his anger rise. “You knew of this plot, and yet you did nothing.”

“I command whisperers, not warriors.”

“You might have come to me earlier.”

“Oh, yes, I confess it. And you would have rushed straight to the king, yes? And when Robert heard of his peril, what would he have done? I wonder.”

Ned considered that. “He would have damned them all, and fought anyway, to show he did not fear them.”

He knew all the information he needed to make the right decision, he knew Lannister tried to kill his son, so Sansa and Arya are in big danger in Kings Landing, he knew Cersei killed Jon Arryn so he also is in danger, he knew Cersei was planning to kill the king so Robert is in danger. When he went to Cersei he did nothing to protect his daughters and his king from the danger.

To be continued..

Ps. Please feel free to indicate my grammar mistakes, thank you.

[sj4iy]

Well, this seems completely unbiased and rational. I'm sure the responses will be the same.

[David Selig]

Why is this in the reread section?

[BearQueen87]

Eddard Stark stupid, incompetent, hypocritical moralizer.

AGOT 6 CATELYN

Ned looked irritated. “Been left? By whom? Has there been a rider? I was not told.”

“There was no rider, my lord. Only a carved wooden box, left on a table in my observatory while I napped. My servants saw no one, but it must have been brought by someone in the king’s party. We have had no other visitors from the south.”

“A wooden box, you say?” Catelyn said.

“Inside was a fine new lens for the observatory, from Myr by the look of it. The lenscrafters of Myr are without equal.”

Ned frowned. He had little patience for this sort of thing, Catelyn knew. “A lens,” he said. “What has that to do with me?”

“I asked the same question,” Maester Luwin said. “Clearly there was more to this than the seeming.”

Eddard Stark has the great fortune to be lord paramount of the North, he has no right to be stupid. I don’t understand the way he behaves with political essays, he seems pleased with himself for not understand nothing. He should not be proud for being dumb.

Hypocritical hate for Lannisters. Tywin did not support Robert’s rebellion at the beginning because his son was a hostage of mad king. Ned and Robert rebelled against Targaryens and Ned thinks he is an honourable man. Jaime killed Aerys, but he is a traitor, Ned has no doubts, he always judges people with bias, he does not investigate real reasons behind the actions, his honourable mind is always certain of being right. Tywin Lannister is a skilled strategist, he know very well when is the time for an direct attack e and when is better to use intelligence. Eddard Stark does not understand when is proper to use some trick for the best of his own men.

Not everyone is as politically adept as others. Ned prefers the quiet simple life, but his men respect him and honor him and he's never had problems like open rebellion in the North because his men consider him a good lord. He doesn't like mysteries and playing the Game of Thrones. So what?

Tywin did not support Robert in his Rebellion because Tywin wanted to be on the winning side and it wasn't until the Trident that it became clear which side was going to win. Are you really bashing Ned Stark for not acting like Tywin Lannister? Thank GOD. Tywin's trick at KL may have let the army into the city but it also led to (paraphrasing Jorah Mormont): babes being butchered, countless women being raped. Rhaegar was dead, the war was basically over except for KL. Tywin wanted to get there first so he could claim that he was a friend to Robert Baratheon, nothing more. And how about Elia and her children? You think that was honorable or good? You think that trick was a good thing? You think Ned should have ordered the same thing?

It wouldn't matter if Ned knew why Jaime killed Aerys. Jaime swore an oath to keep Aerys from harm and then he broke that oath by killing his king. Ned believes in keeping oaths; that's pretty honorable. And, oh yeah, it's not like Jaime ever offered up any sort of explanation...EVER. He never bothered to try and tell anyone "the king put Wildfire all over the city and then wanted to set it off."

Eddard killed Lady because he was a weak, submissive idiot. He was aware of the truth in the Darry incident, Sansa said what has happened. Ned was the lord of the biggest region of seven kingdoms, he was hand of the king and friend of the king. He has the power to protect Lady, but he chose to do nothing.

No Ned killed Lady because the King and Queen ordered it. If Ned hadn't done it, then Ilyn Payne would have. Ned took it upon himself for the same reason he killed the NW's man in Bran I. Robert wasn't going to swing the sword himself, despite having passed judgement, so Ned did it to save his daughter's pet wolf from being butchered. He had no power to protect Lady once the King ordered her killed. The best he could do was give Lady an honorable death.

First time Ned entered in the small council, he thought bad about Varys for no reason. Ned has no idea of real importance of eunuch’s work, he despised Varys for prejudice and not for some understandable reason. Like with Jaime Ned not investigates, his intuition about Varys might be right but he does not try to check some facts. I think Eddard is a very close mineded man, this defect will cost him everything.

Varys served the Mad King, he was only allowed to remain because Robert pardoned him and brought him into the small council (which was a rather dumb idea, if you ask me). Varys was whispering in the King Aerys' ear the whole time, pointing out traitors. And you act like no one else hates Lord Varys. Most people hate him or don't trust him. Hell, even Tyrion is suspicious of Varys and those two got along rather well because Tyrion knows how to play the game; he likes playing the game. Tyrion enjoys toying with people and making them dance like puppets. Ned doesn't...because he's a good man.

The second time Ned acted like an idiot, he know Lannisters are power hungry, he knew Jaime killed a king and he broke his oath, he know Cersei doesn't stop in front of killing of an innocent child and she has already killed Jon Arryn. Varys told him the queen are planning to kill Robert, but Ned ignored all this information. He lost his head because it was an empty head not for his honour. There is no excuses for close your eyes in front of evidence.

He lost his head because Joffery decided to conspire on his own. The plan was to let Ned go join the NW. He lost his head because Joffery is a cruel and sadistic boy. Ned also expected that after he confronted Cersei, she would flee and take the children with her. He didn't realize that her love of power and position was greater than her children. Ned also trusted Littlefinger, someone who has managed to deceive everyone, including Cat. Ned also never closed his eyes to evidence...he's figured out that Cersei's children were bastards. And by the time he realizes the truth, the King is already out hunting. Ned was going to inform Robert as soon as the King returned but Cersei had already put her plan in place. And you seem to be forgetting that Robert is the one who ordered his KG to stand back so that he could deal with the boar himself. That's not something Cersei planned for and not something Ned could have prevented. What exactly was he supposed to do? Ride pell mell out to the woods: "stop Your Grace! The wine was a ploy to kill you and this boar is going to rip you up!! It's all a giant plan! Oh btw, your kids...not yours!" You do not go before the King and tell him that his children are actually incestuous bastards without strong evidence.

And as to his children and not protecting them: what??? He was going back to Winterfell. He had his girls packed and ready.

[BastardlyRock]

Kudos BearQueen, that's absurdly more than the response I felt it deserved. Then again I couldn't get past the first few l sentences...

[Mithras]

I don't hold it against Ned how he was deceived by two master schemers and got killed because of it. No, even Tyrion's balls were completely seized by Varys and he played him like a harp.

[sj4iy]

Kudos BearQueen, that's absurdly more than the response I felt it deserved. Then again I couldn't get past the first few l sentences...

I didn't really get past the title of the thread, myself.

[Elessar]

Aaaand I can see why this thread never took off...

[Lord Coldhands]

Ned was a great character who actually had honor, which most characters never seemed to find. He would have been a hell of a lot better of a King in the North than Robb, that's for sure.

You basically just took all the bad parts of him and didn't even pay attention to his good parts. Biased much?

[Zoyavan]

Littlefinger is that you?! :D

Jokes aside, I agree with you, but likewise when I say it, people jump at me like vultures.

Ned was honorable, true. But I just think back at when LF spoke to him and offered his help.

He basically told Ned what would happen with Stannis, war, death and destruction... but as soon as LF mentions his price, Ned gets furious. Which to be honest, he was right to be a little contemptuous for LF, but he made the wrong choice because of his bigotry. It was not honor which LF had hurt in Ned, it was his pride... He chose war and death, and why? Because the king was blond. And that is why he is both a "fool" and a bad leader, he makes choices for himself and not on behalf of his people who entrust their lives and well being to him.

[INCBlackbird]

Littlefinger is that you?! :D

Jokes aside, I agree with you, but likewise when I say it, people jump at me like vultures.

Ned was honorable, true. But I just think back at when LF spoke to him and offered his help.

He basically told Ned what would happen with Stannis, war, death and destruction... but as soon as LF mentions his price, Ned gets furious. Which to be honest, he was right to be a little contemptuous for LF, but he made the wrong choice because of his bigotry. It was not honor which LF had hurt in Ned, it was his pride... He chose war and death, and why? Because the king was blond. And that is why he is both a "fool" and a bad leader, he makes choices for himself and not on behalf of his people who entrust their lives and well being to him.

THIS SO MUCH!! but everyone will jump at your throat when you say it because who dares say a bad word about precious Ned Stark...

[LordStoneheart]

He basically told Ned what would happen with Stannis, war, death and destruction... but as soon as LF mentions his price, Ned gets furious. Which to be honest, he was right to be a little contemptuous for LF, but he made the wrong choice because of his bigotry. It was not honor which LF had hurt in Ned, it was his pride... He chose war and death, and why? Because the king was blond. And that is why he is both a "fool" and a bad leader, he makes choices for himself and not on behalf of his people who entrust their lives and well being to him.

Choosing LF was not choosing peace. That's so naive to think so.

[Ser Arthur Hightower]

Littlefinger is that you?! :D

Jokes aside, I agree with you, but likewise when I say it, people jump at me like vultures.

Ned was honorable, true. But I just think back at when LF spoke to him and offered his help.

He basically told Ned what would happen with Stannis, war, death and destruction... but as soon as LF mentions his price, Ned gets furious. Which to be honest, he was right to be a little contemptuous for LF, but he made the wrong choice because of his bigotry. It was not honor which LF had hurt in Ned, it was his pride... He chose war and death, and why? Because the king was blond. And that is why he is both a "fool" and a bad leader, he makes choices for himself and not on behalf of his people who entrust their lives and well being to him.

No he didn't if Stannis could somehow come to the throne without war with the Lannisters, then there wouldn't be any war, he doesn't trust the Tyrells, nor the Ironborn or the Dornish, but there is no indication he ever intended to oust those from power or make their lives difficult, Littlefinger was talking a load of bollocks when he said Stannis would end up fighting everyone who fought Robert.

[sandsnake74]

Could we assume Ned is from The North he is as cold as Winterfell he had no understanding of the significance of the Direwolf Pups even though they were a sign of his house? idiot. Killing Lady killed Sansa sorry Ned not much time for you. Best thing you did was rescue and try to protect your sisters baby.

[Chancho]

Did he protect her sister baby by sending him to the wall with only 14 years old?

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Did he protect her sister baby by sending him to the wall with only 14 years old?

He didn't send him to the Wall. It was a decision Jon made. Also, Benjen was there. Benjen is as much as Lyanna's brother as Ned, and also a responsible adult. There is no way Ned could have imagined Benjen would disappear as he couldn't have foreseen he would be accused of treason and beheaded.

[Chancho]

He didn't send him to the Wall. It was a decision Jon made. Also, Benjen was there. Benjen is as much as Lyanna's brother as Ned, and also a responsible adult. There is no way Ned could have imagined Benjen would disappear as he couldn't have foreseen he would be accused of treason and beheaded.

Seriously? Is that a Jon's (14 and felling out of place...) decision to make? Benjen try to persuade Jon Snow to give that "dreams" AT LEAST until he had lived enough of life (How didn't you get the part were Benjen is straight up worried about join going to the wall?)! Ned nailed the hammer... thats nothing else to it... Be a Ranger is also very dangerous way of life... I see a lot of things i disagree.. but that.. oh boy.. Benjen didn't want him there.. He just couldn't do nothing about it...

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Seriously? Is that a Jon's (14 and felling out of place...) decision to make? Benjen try to persuade Jon Snow to give that "dreams" AT LEAST until he had lived enough of life (How didn't you get the part were Benjen is straight up worried about join going to the wall?)! Ned nailed the hammer... thats nothing else to it... Be a Ranger is also very dangerous way of life... I see a lot of things i disagree.. but that.. oh boy.. Benjen didn't want him there.. He just couldn't do nothing about it...

Men in Westeros start to be squires are 9 or 10, and they are knighted at 15 or so. Edric Dayne was the lord of Starfall and yet, he was present during a battle, participating actively, protecting the knight he served despite he was in danger. Idem for Pod.

Also, Benjen never said he didn't want him there. He said, in fact, all the opposite, that a man like him would be useful, BUT, he was too young to join because he hadn't experienced life and he wouldn't know what he's missing.

[Chancho]

Once Jon said those vows all possibilites to his life would end... He didn't understand that.. Benjen was trying to throw a compliment to him, Benjen is the first one if you read into that telling him, that the wall is not like he thinks it is...

[Chancho]

Squiring can be dangerous.. If you are in war (In war few people are safe anyway)... and only then... Keeping Jon safe to throw him to the wall at age 14... doesn't make sense to me.. rangers are always at risk.. pure cowardice from Ned, he should stand up to Catelyn... Benjen knew Jon didn't deserve that cruel faith, we have little insight from him, but still is clear to me.